The value of failure in belt testing.

[TSDTexan]

I've been following your post and still feel like this minor setback is for the best in the long run. Karate training in the most broadest sense belongs to you. If for some reason your Shihan seemed to think failing you at this level will be better for you in the long run it may be because he feels that you have more potential to

I'm following this thread and still completely agree with you and your outlook. What may look like unfair treatment may very well be a lesson in something else. You have your own students and prefer to have a high standard from what I understand. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that your instructor has higher expectations for you compared to the brown belt. It could be a factor of outlook and hence why comparing yourself to anyone else may not be helpful to your own development. I would explain it this way.......

A set criteria for everyone to pass or fail indicates a minimum required to pass to the next level. Not everyone is the same though. We all have different abilities or disabilities. Should I pass or fail because I am at a point in my life where I cannot do something that someone half my age can do with ease ? Under the bar of 'a set criteria' there is no judgement as to if a student is ready for the next level but that means you are nurturing students to meet a 'minimum standard'. There are instructors that grade their students to a more personal measure or against what they estimate is their personal potential. Grading with this outlook can produce students that will train to demonstrate their personal potential which may be a great deal higher than the average student.

Under 1 method of testing (ie: minimum standard) all belts should be therefore equal but the line will be close to the minimum standard required. Under the other method, all belts will not be equal as a more capable and effective belts will be challenged to what their perceived potential is.

I am not advocating one way over the other I am simply stating that there does not seem to be a universal set criteria to evaluate gradings and that I understand that instructors have their own reasons for making the decisions that they do. If you don't like it, change schools. Ultimately, you need to train in a place that appeals to you and that will satisfy your ideas on how to progress through the ranks. In your particular instance, as annoyed as you may be I think you can understand that there may be more to this decision than the apparent 'fairness' of the outcome.

I see no weakness in the path you chose. Quite the opposite. Osu !

Some great thoughts here.

The idea that he has higher expectations of me, than others has gone through my head a few times. Its good, to see that, i am not alone in that line of reasoning.

 

[Headhunter]

You stated he did the form wrong... but were unable to perform it yourself. Did he really do it wrong? How can YOU prove it if you couldn't show him?

That's why I might have passed the other guy, but failed you.

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Yep same here. If you say someone's doing somethings wrong fine...but back it up. By not being able to do something your telling someone is wrong then the students will lose respect for you

 

[Headhunter]

Actually, please show me where I asked for opinions? I didn't.

I did allow it to become a discussion, but that isnt even the purpose of the thread.

Thank you for your input, its been noted.
Other then beating a dead horse, do you have anything else to say... besides repeating yourself?

I'm in 2 opinions on this, I mean there's no point challenging anyone. The decisions made the test is over move on. Unfair? Maybe maybe not but life's unfair that's the way things go at times no point crying about it.

But second you are complaining about it on here. So what if your instructor ends up visiting this forum and sees this post. I mean I'm sure he'll recognise the situation and realise who it is. Then that just makes it awkward like you've been complaining online instead of talking to him.

 

[dvcochran]

Yep same here. If you say someone's doing somethings wrong fine...but back it up. By not being able to do something your telling someone is wrong then the students will lose respect for you

I have to deal with this some. I have some physical limitations which limit some of what I can do. So there are times I have to explain using very good details, and often using someone else to give a physical example while I am explaining. But I feel certain I make up for this in other areas and never feel respect is lost.
I think this is a different situation. @TSDTexan posted his disappointment in his performance and the experience as a whole. He was beating himself up about it. Because it was a Kicho form he was even more disappointed and may have went a little overboard in lamenting about it. But haven't we all at some point? He needs to have an adult conversation with his instructor, and practice his basic forms. The believe he will work out on his own.

 

[TSDTexan]

I'm in 2 opinions on this, I mean there's no point challenging anyone. The decisions made the test is over move on. Unfair? Maybe maybe not but life's unfair that's the way things go at times no point crying about it.

But second you are complaining about it on here. So what if your instructor ends up visiting this forum and sees this post. I mean I'm sure he'll recognise the situation and realise who it is. Then that just makes it awkward like you've been complaining online instead of talking to him.

It wasnt really even meant as a complaint. I was motivated to encourage others who have failed on their tests.

In the course of discussion, i shared my annoyance about a tangential event. I wasn't venting or complaining.

It was others that made a bigger deal about it than I felt. Yes, I had a part, by broaching the subject.

If my Shihan were to read this... perhaps he might understand my caution, in not addressing or causing him to lose face, in the dojo.

For the record, I keep the names of my dojo members confidential. So neither him, the brownbelt, or the whitebelt are exposed.

Could this have been handled in house? Sure, but I dont see a scandal here. Whats to discuss internally?
He's the captain. He already made the call.

I don't think he could walk back the promotion of the brownbelt, and I don't have any such expectation.

I agreed with my being held back. I feel that call was perfectly reasonable.

What's been discussed thus far, has only led to me doubling down on my personal studies.

We have rules of etiquette, a dojo kun.
There is no rules found within pertaining to social media, or internet forums. So, I am not worried that I have crossed a line. I have been pretty circumspect in what I have said.

As for addressing him directly in the matter, I would have done that if I thought that it was would have actually been productive. I have no desire to waste his time, or my own bringing forward a concern that would simply be dismissed, and that dismissal wouldn't happen without damaging the relationship.

It would have been nice to hear his rationale, but he isnt in a position that he needs to explain himself.
He doesn't owe me or anyone else an explanation.

But for the record, it wasn't complaining, and my apologies to any reader who came to that conclusion.
my OP was meant to let anyone who fails a test, know that you will eventually, dont give up, don't become bitter. It has been a very long time since I failed an exam. And the fact that I failed on something that I didn't devote enough attention to, was a wake up call for me.

This whole thing, has led me to change how I viewed forms. Because certain beginner forms are trivial and easy to perform, I hadn't respected their value beyond the practical skill and function.

there are very hard and difficult forms, and easy forms. I had by my own practice, acted upon beliefs that one form was more valuable than another.

my paradigm shifted. I now hold to a view that says all authentic forms hold equal worth or value. Even if some are very easy or simple they are of just as much value as forms that are incredibly deep, rich or extremely challenging.

 

[Headhunter]

I have to deal with this some. I have some physical limitations which limit some of what I can do. So there are times I have to explain using very good details, and often using someone else to give a physical example while I am explaining. But I feel certain I make up for this in other areas and never feel respect is lost.
I think this is a different situation. @TSDTexan posted his disappointment in his performance and the experience as a whole. He was beating himself up about it. Because it was a Kicho form he was even more disappointed and may have went a little overboard in lamenting about it. But haven't we all at some point? He needs to have an adult conversation with his instructor, and practice his basic forms. The believe he will work out on his own.

Yeah I mean if someone's injured or physically can't do it then that's fine but as long as they work their hardest. But if you can't do simply because you haven't practiced then that's a different story