The price for a private lesson?

[Flying Crane]

I could see it being useful, in select circumstances. The first is if it's meant as more of a showcase, if you are trying to decide what interests you and what type of art you are going to pursue (normally I'd say this to be broken between different people, but John has experience in a lot of different chinese arts, so he could accomplish that on his own).

The second is if you are working with that instructor regularly, or another instructor who has similar knowledge, so you can later delve deep into the techniques that interest you.

My preference, though, would still be significantly less techniques - maybe 10 so you get 15 minutes per technique (with some built-in buffer time).

I suppose it depends on what is meant by “technique”. If the definition means a certain type of punch or kick or joint lock, vs. a more lengthy scripted “self-defense situational technique” similar to what is found in the American kenpo lineages, that is a whole different animal. Either way, a deeper focus on fewer seems more appropriate to a seminar, in my opinion.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I suppose it depends on what is meant by “technique”. If the definition means a certain type of punch or kick or joint lock, vs. a more lengthy scripted “self-defense situational technique” similar to what is found in the American kenpo lineages, that is a whole different animal. Either way, a deeper focus on fewer seems more appropriate to a seminar, in my opinion.

That's true. I just took a random kempo technique (what I view as technique) and split it up - that one could be split into 8 techniques. Going by that logic, if I taught 6 of those, I'd be a little over 45 'techniques' per seminar, which would absolutely be doable over 3 hours.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Same thing I charge for any lesson. $0.00.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I think it's a false spectrum of "genuine about passing on the skills" versus "making money from the art". People have to live. If an instructor can make his living off teaching, he can devote more time to teaching and training than if he has to also hold down a full-time job (with all the skill maintenance involved in that pursuit)

There are more than a few schools where making money from the art is their main purpose

In years past I have seen plenty of schools capitalizing on every opportunity to make money whilst producing low-calibre martial artists in the process. Surely, we have our own experiences and examples of martial arts schools and instructors who are far from genuine about promoting the art, being far more interested in making money by exploiting the naivety of the general public.

A couple of months ago my friend of mine came across a local tai chi class with an instructor who claimed to have been taught the style by a Shaolin monk. When we enquired for further details on the lineage and style they told us the Shaolin master shunned publicity and preferred to keep her credentials secret as this was the Shaolin way

It will not surprise you to learn the membership costs, and monthly fees were extremely high - I advised my friend to look elsewhere

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There are more than a few schools where making money from the art is their main purpose

In years past I have seen plenty of schools capitalizing on every opportunity to make money whilst producing low-calibre martial artists in the process. Surely, we have our own experiences and examples of martial arts schools and instructors who are far from genuine about promoting the art, being far more interested in making money by exploiting the naivety of the general public.

A couple of months ago my friend of mine came across a local tai chi class with an instructor who claimed to have been taught the style by a Shaolin monk. When we enquired for further details on the lineage and style they told us the Shaolin master shunned publicity and preferred to keep her credentials secret as this was the Shaolin way

It will not surprise you to learn the membership costs, and monthly fees were extremely high - I advised my friend to look elsewhere

You should've checked to see if they'd do a free lesson or let you watch a free lesson, see if you recognize the style. Pretty sure it'd be a type of wushu, some generic shaolin-do, or yang style tai chi.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I charge $50/hour, which is on the low side compared to my peers, but I enjoy teaching so I just charge enough to compensate for using my limited free time.

Same thing I charge for any lesson. $0.00.

Just to clarify, I do a fair amount of teaching for free. I teach group classes at my gym for free because I enjoy doing it and it's my contribution to help the gym stay afloat. I'll often end up giving impromptu free private lessons to students who have questions after class and I periodically volunteer to provide extra coaching for folks who are preparing for a fight.

I charge for privates when people contact me to schedule lessons during what would normally be my free time that I might want to use for something else. $50/hour works out to be roughly what the overtime rate for my day job would be if I wasn't on salary.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

45 techniques in 3 hours seems like too much, IMO. That's an average of about 4 minutes per technique. It'd be difficult to retain much, at all, at that pace.

- For some people, they go to workshop to learn.
- For others, they go to workshop to obtain information.

Since I have recorded all my workshop on video, My workshop students all get a copy of that video for further study. At least they will have enough information to work on for the next 2 years.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

45 techniques in 3 hours seems like too much, IMO. That's an average of about 4 minutes per technique. It'd be difficult to retain much, at all, at that pace.

My focus, especially during private lessons and seminars, is much less on teaching new techniques and much more on how to make techniques work.

When I teach a private lesson, I typically ask the student if they have a particular problem area they would like to focus on, such as defending and escaping from the bottom of side-mount. Then I'll roll with them for a few minutes to see how they are currently doing. Based on that, I can construct a lesson which will enable them to do a better job of whatever objective they are trying to achieve. Sometimes that might involve showing them some new techniques. More often, it will involve fixing the techniques they have already learned, helping them to understand the underlying principles, and learning how to put the techniques they know into practice.

 

[jks9199]

I learned a while back that people just don't value "free" very much. Like I said above -- people need to pay something. It doesn't have to be money -- it can be an exchange of services, or some other barter -- but I've just had my time abused too much when I gave personal training or "work out with me" rather than have some sort of cost.

After having my time taken for granted and taken advantage of too many times... I set the time, and if they're late... there's a window that they're out of luck if they miss it. Usually about 15 minutes...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When I teach a private lesson, I typically ask the student if they have a particular problem area they would like to focus on, such as defending and escaping from the bottom of side-mount. Then I'll roll with them for a few minutes to see how they are currently doing.

To convince students with your personal ability is a good teaching method.

One thing that I like to do in my workshop is:

- I let my opponent to have 2 grips on my jacket. I then break his grips apart.
- I then grab on my opponent's jack and ask him to try to break my grips apart.

After the test, I ask my workshop students why I can break their grips, but they can't break my grip.

It helps me to explain a very important point and that is technique is only the 50%. The other 50% is ability. They can learn technique in workshop, but they have to develop ability at home by themselves.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When I teach a private lesson, I typically ask the student if they have a particular problem area they would like to focus on,

For BJJ guys, what kind of "ability" do they need to develop at home?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I learned a while back that people just don't value "free" very much. Like I said above -- people need to pay something. It doesn't have to be money -- it can be an exchange of services, or some other barter -- but I've just had my time abused too much when I gave personal training or "work out with me" rather than have some sort of cost.

After having my time taken for granted and taken advantage of too many times... I set the time, and if they're late... there's a window that they're out of luck if they miss it. Usually about 15 minutes...

There is a mind set that if something is free then it doesn't have any value

 

[HighKick]

Reading through this post, I see we approach it differently with a more commercial approach. Since overhead is involved, we have a standard model for what an hour of material, overhead and manhours costs. Almost all of our private lessons are from active or returning students, with a focus on specific areas. Definitely short-term projects. We charge $70/hour, same as our monthly fee. I have had a few people who wanted private lessons from the start, but they never lasted very long and most of them entered regular sessions.
To @Tony Dismukes comment about after class sessions, it seems we always have a 10-15 minute period after classes with several people about specific elements. It is almost always with teens and above in age. I am assuming you are talking about something much more than this?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

To @Tony Dismukes comment about after class sessions, it seems we always have a 10-15 minute period after classes with several people about specific elements. It is almost always with teens and above in age. I am assuming you are talking about something much more than this?

It varies according to have much time I have, how much time the student has, and how motivated each of us is feeling for extra training that night. I've sometimes spent an hour of more after class going over material with a single student. Usually it's an experienced student that I've worked with for a while and have more specific, personalized guidance ready for rather than "just keep showing up for class and we'll get to that."

 

[Oily Dragon]

There is a mind set that if something is free then it doesn't have any value

Those people are called fascists, because that is almost a direct quote from Michael Ironside in Starship Troopers.

See, the underlying message is this: something only has value if you take it.

It's only one step above and beyond nihilism.

Although to be totally honest, when your real surname is "Ironside", anything you say is using force, and force, my friends, is violence. "the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived. "

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I learned a while back that people just don't value "free" very much. Like I said above -- people need to pay something. It doesn't have to be money -- it can be an exchange of services, or some other barter -- but I've just had my time abused too much when I gave personal training or "work out with me" rather than have some sort of cost.

After having my time taken for granted and taken advantage of too many times... I set the time, and if they're late... there's a window that they're out of luck if they miss it. Usually about 15 minutes...

The honor system works really well. It operates on a donation basis which opens the tuition up to all kinds of economic classes. A fixed-fee system excludes a lot of people who would really value the teachings. An honor-based donation system is a much fairer approach and is certainly my preference. It makes no sense excluding people from lower income brackets when the martial arts offer such great benefits to individuals, groups and the wider society.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Those people are called fascists, because that is almost a direct quote from Michael Ironside in Starship Troopers.

See, the underlying message is this: something only has value if you take it.

It's only one step above and beyond nihilism.

Although to be totally honest, when your real surname is "Ironside", anything you say is using force, and force, my friends, is violence. "the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived. "

lol I learn it from a marketing class. The topic was how to value products and services. It listed factors that play a role in how people value what you offer. Make it too expensive and people will do other things with that money. Make it too low and people won't bother to buy it. It's same buying principle that many of use already use. If the product is too cheap then we know quality is at risk. If the product is too expensive then we know that we are probably paying more than necessary. I don't know anyone who doesn't use this logic at some point in the their lives.

That mid line price is where the majority of the value lies. It is the price at which most people are willing to give something up (pay) in order to get something in return. If you are looking to increase membership, students, or the number of people who want to take lessons from you, then this is a good way to look at pricing.

The way that I work it out is.
If I offer something for free, then I sell it as someone is working out with me. OR
If I offer something for free, then it's something that I no longer use because I have another version of the same product.
If I offer something at a cost then that's because I see a cost in me having to provide an item or service to you.

If I'm teaching Kung Fu at a cost then it's because the cost is my time. I cannot get my time back. I could be doing something else other than training a person.

If I'm teaching Kung Fu for free, then the student shows up on my training schedule. Teaching the basics to the student is me revisiting my own basics.. In situations like this. I'm training at that time and day even if the student doesn't show up. This way I lose nothing if the student doesn't show up.

I have things in my house that I could offer for free to everyone in this group and most of you wouldn't find value in it. A lot of what was said in this thread just validates my observations that Martial Arts teachers don't make the best business people in terms of Growing a Martial Arts school. Many experience the conflict between being a teacher and making a profit.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

a donation basis ...

Have done that once in my life. Will never do that again.

If someone puts $1 in your donation box, you won't be able to sleep for the next 3 nights. QAQ

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If I'm teaching Kung Fu for free,

If you applied a student loan for $100,000 to finish your college degree. You then work for free. Who is going to pay back your student loan?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There are more than a few schools where making money from the art is their main purpose

In years past I have seen plenty of schools capitalizing on every opportunity to make money whilst producing low-calibre martial artists in the process. Surely, we have our own experiences and examples of martial arts schools and instructors who are far from genuine about promoting the art, being far more interested in making money by exploiting the naivety of the general public.

A couple of months ago my friend of mine came across a local tai chi class with an instructor who claimed to have been taught the style by a Shaolin monk. When we enquired for further details on the lineage and style they told us the Shaolin master shunned publicity and preferred to keep her credentials secret as this was the Shaolin way

It will not surprise you to learn the membership costs, and monthly fees were extremely high - I advised my friend to look elsewhere

Of course there are places that put the money ahead of quality. That happens in the very industry and endeavor.