The importance of Kata

[PhotonGuy]

Ah, you're a personal friend of his.

Not yet. I do know he teaches in CA at the Rising Sun Karate Academy and I do plan on going there and meeting him sometime.

 

[drop bear]

So if jason frank can't do good kata. Is this an example of kata not really being that important.

He can break world records. Fight MMA, achieve a black belt hall of fame, run succesful schools but cant do kata. And he is in a system that does do kata. I that says more about kata than Jason Frank.

 

[Tez3]

Not yet. I do know he teaches in CA at the Rising Sun Karate Academy and I do plan on going there and meeting him sometime.

then wait until you do meet him before extolling his virtues, often heroes have feet of clay.

 

[JP3]

then wait until you do meet him before extolling his virtues, often heroes have feet of clay.

I'd offer that everyone has feet of clay, as you put it. Some do stand straight, and endeavor to reach into the heavens, however.

 

[JP3]

I don't think there's a MA club near me that would stay open without children.

Ours is probably a little more than 60/40 kids/adults. We're about 50 students total, so we're pretty small. The large and commercial places are far child heavier.

MMA and BJJ are typically the exceptions. But most MMA and BJJ places have other stuff going on, like gym equipment/membership and other spa-type stuff that supplements their income. They usually also have other styles like Muay Thai and Judo taught by rent paying instructors.

For a typical MA school in my neck of the woods, kids' tuition pays the bills.

Right. I'm sure every U.S.-based poster on here has seen signs for Karate Day Care, or Karate After School programs.... I was just talking about this subject the other day to the guy who owns the BJJ school inw hich my aikido/aikijutsu group trains. He & I were kicking around the pros & cons of his expanding the space, or taking over another space nearby which would effectively triple our mat space. Thing is, lease rate goes up by at least 3x as well. Where we are, I think his rate (unless the landlord raised it recently) he's at about $1500 USD/mo for our space, which really isn't that small, but the mat is the dominant part of everything, only 1 bathroom/1 changing room etc. It's not set up for a open to all situation as you'd need for the afterschool program.

Oh, Tez, for the after-school program you have to register witht he State here as well. Not for just a MA class, but if you get associated in Any way with daycare, which after school programs are, you've got to register with,a nd be inspected by, the State. You're right about that, it is a huge bother. But, for some of these guys & gals, it's their only way to earn a good/decent living, as they screwed off in school and have no other marketable skill. So, get the daycare operating/business license, put out a flyer, and get 60-100 ankle-biters in there with the parents paying ~$150/mo.... you do the math.

Don't have those kids? At max, our club has 15 aikido people and 25 bjj people regularly, sort of, attending. Nobody gets rich training adults, not in the states... not until one is way, way up in some organizations hallowed halls.

 

[Tez3]

I'd offer that everyone has feet of clay, as you put it. Some do stand straight, and endeavor to reach into the heavens, however.

Nah, I don't, I wear high heels.......

 

[JR 137]

Right. I'm sure every U.S.-based poster on here has seen signs for Karate Day Care, or Karate After School programs.... I was just talking about this subject the other day to the guy who owns the BJJ school inw hich my aikido/aikijutsu group trains. He & I were kicking around the pros & cons of his expanding the space, or taking over another space nearby which would effectively triple our mat space. Thing is, lease rate goes up by at least 3x as well. Where we are, I think his rate (unless the landlord raised it recently) he's at about $1500 USD/mo for our space, which really isn't that small, but the mat is the dominant part of everything, only 1 bathroom/1 changing room etc. It's not set up for a open to all situation as you'd need for the afterschool program.

Oh, Tez, for the after-school program you have to register witht he State here as well. Not for just a MA class, but if you get associated in Any way with daycare, which after school programs are, you've got to register with,a nd be inspected by, the State. You're right about that, it is a huge bother. But, for some of these guys & gals, it's their only way to earn a good/decent living, as they screwed off in school and have no other marketable skill. So, get the daycare operating/business license, put out a flyer, and get 60-100 ankle-biters in there with the parents paying ~$150/mo.... you do the math.

Don't have those kids? At max, our club has 15 aikido people and 25 bjj people regularly, sort of, attending. Nobody gets rich training adults, not in the states... not until one is way, way up in some organizations hallowed halls.

It's not about after school programs nor day care programs. It's all about numbers. The dojo I train at doesn't do any of that, nor birthday parties or anything else along those lines.

Without kids training and paying, we're out of business. Without kids, we've got about 20 members. With kids, we're just over 50. That's not a day care thing, that's a members paying membership dues thing.

The dojos that run the after school/day care thing are the minority. I can only think of 2 places that do it; 1 is a single TKD dojang, and the other is a 6 or so TKD dojang chain. Without kids the others are cutting their membership by 50-75%. There's an odd dojo or 2 that doesn't have kids' classes, but they're really the exception.

My dojo does separate kids' classes. The curriculum is the same for adults and kids, except the kids' curriculum goes slower.

 

[JP3]

It's not about after school programs nor day care programs. It's all about numbers. The dojo I train at doesn't do any of that, nor birthday parties or anything else along those lines.

Without kids training and paying, we're out of business. Without kids, we've got about 20 members. With kids, we're just over 50. That's not a day care thing, that's a members paying membership dues thing.

The dojos that run the after school/day care thing are the minority. I can only think of 2 places that do it; 1 is a single TKD dojang, and the other is a 6 or so TKD dojang chain. Without kids the others are cutting their membership by 50-75%. There's an odd dojo or 2 that doesn't have kids' classes, but they're really the exception.

My dojo does separate kids' classes. The curriculum is the same for adults and kids, except the kids' curriculum goes slower.

Where is your school located? Here in Houston, I can honestly report it's almost cookie-cutter... karate day care is everywhere, as it is WAY cheaper than typical after-school programs at professional daycares. They are bursting at the seams.

And... for some reason, the amounts of kids that actually take "karate" (used in the general MA way) is not high enough, typically.

Now that I think on it, I think I'd like Balrog to sound off on this. He may blow up my opinion by himself, but that's my experience on the south side of Houston.

 

[JR 137]

Where is your school located? Here in Houston, I can honestly report it's almost cookie-cutter... karate day care is everywhere, as it is WAY cheaper than typical after-school programs at professional daycares. They are bursting at the seams.

And... for some reason, the amounts of kids that actually take "karate" (used in the general MA way) is not high enough, typically.

Now that I think on it, I think I'd like Balrog to sound off on this. He may blow up my opinion by himself, but that's my experience on the south side of Houston.

We're about 10 minutes outside Albany, NY.

I've got no problem with the places that do the after school program. It's a pretty good business model, actually. They pick up the kids from school, have a room for them to do homework, one or two of them even has a playground. They also do summer camps, activities during breaks, etc.

That's all fine and good. So long as the quality of MA instruction is good. The one place I stopped into to check out for my daughter, which is about 4 blocks from her school (where I teach too) has horrible instruction. During the after school program, there's 4 or 5 classes sharing the floor. Each class has about 10-12 students. Those classes are run by high school aged kids, with one adult instructor circulating. I was in there for maybe 10 minutes, and my head was pounding from the noise and chaos. Then there were the TKD moms lined up watching their kids. Pulling up in their Range Rovers, drinking Starbucks, wearing their Lululemon yoga clothes, and talking about how their kid is the star of everything he/she does, and the other kids are "getting better." McDojo Madness at its finest. And you're required to sign up for a "black belt plan" which means there's a flat rate you pay (about $5k) until your kid "earns" his/her black belt. If it takes your kid 10 days or 10 years to "earn" black belt, the price is the same. They say the average time is 5 years, but somehow most do it in a little over 2 years. Funny how averages work, huh? Then when your kid passes the black belt test, you'd think they'd get their belt, right? Nope. The belt itself isn't included; that's $250 extra. Read the fine print.

I'm all for people making money. I'd certainly love to make more money, so I don't look down on others who actually do. If the quality of instruction was worth it, I wouldn't say a word about it. What goes on on that floor and "quality instruction" shouldn't be said in the same breath. The other chain is pretty much the same. Actually, the guy who runs that dojo split from the other chain. IMO, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Sorry for the rant. I just had to let you in on the state of TKD daycare in my area. There are a few TKD places that don't operate this way, so I'm not condemning TKD as a whole. But TKD in my area is very commonly referred to as "Take My Dough."

 

[JP3]

We're about 10 minutes outside Albany, NY.

I've got no problem with the places that do the after school program. It's a pretty good business model, actually. They pick up the kids from school, have a room for them to do homework, one or two of them even has a playground. They also do summer camps, activities during breaks, etc.

That's all fine and good. So long as the quality of MA instruction is good. The one place I stopped into to check out for my daughter, which is about 4 blocks from her school (where I teach too) has horrible instruction. During the after school program, there's 4 or 5 classes sharing the floor. Each class has about 10-12 students. Those classes are run by high school aged kids, with one adult instructor circulating. I was in there for maybe 10 minutes, and my head was pounding from the noise and chaos. Then there were the TKD moms lined up watching their kids. Pulling up in their Range Rovers, drinking Starbucks, wearing their Lululemon yoga clothes, and talking about how their kid is the star of everything he/she does, and the other kids are "getting better." McDojo Madness at its finest. And you're required to sign up for a "black belt plan" which means there's a flat rate you pay (about $5k) until your kid "earns" his/her black belt. If it takes your kid 10 days or 10 years to "earn" black belt, the price is the same. They say the average time is 5 years, but somehow most do it in a little over 2 years. Funny how averages work, huh? Then when your kid passes the black belt test, you'd think they'd get their belt, right? Nope. The belt itself isn't included; that's $250 extra. Read the fine print.

I'm all for people making money. I'd certainly love to make more money, so I don't look down on others who actually do. If the quality of instruction was worth it, I wouldn't say a word about it. What goes on on that floor and "quality instruction" shouldn't be said in the same breath. The other chain is pretty much the same. Actually, the guy who runs that dojo split from the other chain. IMO, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Sorry for the rant. I just had to let you in on the state of TKD daycare in my area. There are a few TKD places that don't operate this way, so I'm not condemning TKD as a whole. But TKD in my area is very commonly referred to as "Take My Dough."

Sounds just about right to me!

The places that have kids programs like that ... don't seem to get the message across. But, I get how you noted the soccer moms post-Yoga class, and "My kid is the star! He's so awesome! He got seven trophies at the last tournament. I don't know how he did it, but he's really good!" Gush-gush-gush.

Ack. It is what it is.

I've wanted to ask the head instructor of the place closest to my aikido place, "Can I get fries with my kid's class?" just to see if he'd get it.

 

[JR 137]

Sounds just about right to me!

The places that have kids programs like that ... don't seem to get the message across. But, I get how you noted the soccer moms post-Yoga class, and "My kid is the star! He's so awesome! He got seven trophies at the last tournament. I don't know how he did it, but he's really good!" Gush-gush-gush.

Ack. It is what it is.

I've wanted to ask the head instructor of the place closest to my aikido place, "Can I get fries with my kid's class?" just to see if he'd get it.

Yeah, their kid is always the best at everything. And to make whoever they're talking to feel better, they'll usually say "hey, your kid is getting a lot better." What the hell is that supposed to mean? Lol.

I saw a great post on their Facebook page that sums everything up quite nicely... they had pictures from a tournament they hosted for their own school. They had a few pics of the tables with all the trophies on them. Without exaggerating, there had to be at least 3x as many trophies as competitors. And they were pretty big trophies too. They rented out a local sports-plex place to hold it. TKD on field turf must've been pretty interesting.

 

[Tez3]

Pulling up in their Range Rovers,

I'm rather upset at these Range Rovers being kept captive, don't they know they are for off roading and country activities, are supposed to be permanently dirty and full of things like muddy wellies, Barber jackets, tack, horse blankets and lots of dog hair ( Labrador and Golden Retrievers,Springer Spaniels and Lurchers with the odd Jack Russell). It's an abuse of Range Rovers to be used to drive around towns and cities, they are meant to roam free!

 

[hoshin1600]

I'm rather upset at these Range Rovers being kept captive, don't they know they are for off roading and country activities, are supposed to be permanently dirty and full of things like muddy wellies, Barber jackets, tack, horse blankets and lots of dog hair ( Labrador and Golden Retrievers,Springer Spaniels and Lurchers with the odd Jack Russell). It's an abuse of Range Rovers to be used to drive around towns and cities, they are meant to roam free!

i think in the US Jeeps are for off road and Range rovers with a MSRP of about 90 thousand dollars are for the rich.

 

[Tez3]

i think in the US Jeeps are for off road and Range rovers with a MSRP of about 90 thousand dollars are for the rich.

Good grief!!!

 

[Steve]

Yeah, Range Rovers are cool, but in the States are so expensive, the only wildlife they see are tea and biscuit parties on the manicured lawns.

 

[JR 137]

I'm rather upset at these Range Rovers being kept captive, don't they know they are for off roading and country activities, are supposed to be permanently dirty and full of things like muddy wellies, Barber jackets, tack, horse blankets and lots of dog hair ( Labrador and Golden Retrievers,Springer Spaniels and Lurchers with the odd Jack Russell). It's an abuse of Range Rovers to be used to drive around towns and cities, they are meant to roam free!

I agree. Around here, shamefully they're only very expensive grocery-getters.

Edit: I think most people here either don't fully understand what is meant by "Range" or just haven't made the connection. The Hummer suffers the same grocery-getter fate all too often as well.

 

[Tez3]

I agree. Around here, shamefully they're only very expensive grocery-getters.

Edit: I think most people here either don't fully understand what is meant by "Range" or just haven't made the connection. The Hummer suffers the same grocery-getter fate all too often as well.

If you want the very best Land Rover don't get the Range Rover try to get your hands on a Defender. They've just stopped making them but they are the very best 4x4, do everything go everywhere vehicle you can get, so many uses with the military as well as in civvy street. Indestructible! Ours is the 'third person' in our marriage lol.

 

[JR 137]

If you want the very best Land Rover don't get the Range Rover try to get your hands on a Defender. They've just stopped making them but they are the very best 4x4, do everything go everywhere vehicle you can get, so many uses with the military as well as in civvy street. Indestructible! Ours is the 'third person' in our marriage lol.

The Defender is one of the coolest vehicles of all time IMO. They didn't sell very well here in the States, so they weren't around very long.

A friend of mine growing up had one. We did some crazy stuff in that thing. It was a tank. But it was pretty unreliable, and the price of parts was outrageous. It always needed something. But it would always go wherever. Kind of an oxymoron.

My father is a mechanic. He HATES Rover. And Jaguar. The only British car he ever liked, and he absolutely loved it was the Mini Cooper. Not today's BMW owned Mini, but the Mini of his youth (he's almost 70 years old).

 

[Tez3]

Ah the Mini was really cool ( it's the Mini of my youth too lol) Defenders are usually very reliable, the military use them here, we've never had any problem with ours, perhaps it had been badly used before.
Rover was a different company from Landrover, Rover cars were pretty lousy so it's not surprising it went out of business. E type Jags according to Enzo Ferrari were the perfect sports car, the new F type is pretty amazing though. Jaguar F-Type

Maybe, getting back on thread topic, it would take a lot of children's classes to pay for one though.

 

[Hanshi]

The first and second movies were wonderful and dealt with the relationship between Daniel and Miyagi. And it also dealt with introspection of the self. Karate is an outside AND inside path we take. It can't be fully explained in a movie seen mostly by the uninformed. It was basically a "short" and tepid version. That particular movie displayed was not as satisfying as the first two; let's take it for what it actually is, a movie of trust and friendship and a journey of self understanding. Thank you.

PS. Kata is important just as a sharpening stone is important to make the blade as sharp as possible.