The essence of Tai Chi push hand kung fu

[windwalker099]

some thoughts

a meeting with

Master Wang Yongquan

Prior to meeting Master Wang Yongquan, Master Wei was a contented master of Chen style Tai Chi Chuan. A friend told him of an old master with superlative skill that he must meet. Master Wei famously said that there was nothing more for him to learn in Tai Chi Chuan since he had attained a high level of skill.

In the next instance Master Wei was thrown back, an expression of surprise on his face. He had not expected this and in his heart knew that for all his Chen style attainment he just did not have anything close to what Master Wang just demonstrated on him. So on the wrong side of fifty Master Wei set aside all that he had learned before and began to learn afresh from Master Wang.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Like a river meandering to the ocean, it has taken twists and turns.
Meeting the ocean, returning to the source.

Translates to a whole lot of overly verbose conversation to me...and I will leave it at that....

Most Taijiquan teachers I have trained with from China, and I have trained with a few, do not talk that much. It seems to be those of us that train with them however do....

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

MMA gal uses kouchi gari (minor inner reap) in a fight, like "刀(Dao) - [inner] sickle hook."

https://imgur.com/Iy9hHXD

This past weekend at UFC 307, MMA gal uses kosoto gake (minor outer hook) in a fight, like "削(XIAO) - sickle hook"

https://imgur.com/FoF6cTB

Here we go with ufc armchair video again. Your video is not pertinent to this thread.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

That sweep in the video is in Wu Style

Tung has sweeps in the fast forms, but not that one

I use this but I can’t say I learned it from Tai Chi Chuan.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

MMA gal uses kouchi gari (minor inner reap) in a fight, like "刀(Dao) - [inner] sickle hook."

https://imgur.com/Iy9hHXD

This past weekend at UFC 307, MMA gal uses kosoto gake (minor outer hook) in a fight, like "削(XIAO) - sickle hook"

https://imgur.com/FoF6cTB

Both are good videos. Thanks for sharing.

The 1st video uses the "leg spring, inner sweep" combo. The 2nd video uses "outer hook".

If those leg skill can be integrated into the Taiji PH, it can add more value into it.

 

[windwalker099]

Translates to a whole lot of overly verbose conversation to me...and I will leave it at that....

Most Taijiquan teachers I have trained with from China, and I have trained with a few, do not talk that much. It seems to be those of us that train with them however do....

did they use the internet?

“Verbose conversation”

Video is better
Have any showing your work?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

embrace return tiger to mountain ,

Why does anybody want to carry a tiger back to mountain? It doesn't make any logic sense.

I believe it should be called "well fed tiger return back to mountain".

In Chinese both "饱 (Bao) - well fed" and "抱 (Bao) - carry" sound the same. In speaking, one may confuse "饱 (Bao) - well fed" with "抱 (Bao) - carry" in the past.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And i mean no offense, but this thread had gone a long way in getting me to rethink my MA goals and seriously consider making Taijiquan secondary to me, if even that high on the list

The "brush knee twist step" is quite unique in Yang Taiji.

- Your fingertips touch on your opponent,
- You then drop your palm heel,
- Drop your elbow,
- Sink your shoulder, and
- Put all your body weight into it.

This kind of power generation doesn't exist in long fist, praying mantis, WC, ... It may be similar to Xing Yi.

I use this method in my "rhino guard" and "double hooks". It works pretty good for me.

 

[Xue Sheng]

did they use the internet?

“Verbose conversation”

Video is better
Have any showing your work?

I've seen, heard and read both....who use much verbosity.... and the things is...go back to when I first came to MT, almost 20 years ago...the Irony is....I was one of them.....

you like to ask me for video.... and I will give you the same answer every single time...not a chance.... you see, my attitude is much the same as my teachers...... especially the old Chinese ones..... although some do have videos out there, but it is for $$ and teaching....

 

[Xue Sheng]

The "brush knee twist step" is quite unique in Yang Taiji.

- Your fingertips touch on your opponent,
- You then drop your palm heel,
- Drop your elbow,
- Sink your shoulder, and
- Put all your body weight into it.

This kind of power generation doesn't exist in long fist, praying mantis, WC, ... It may be similar to Xing Yi.

I use this method in my "rhino guard" and "double hooks". It works pretty good for me.

Chen version

Yang version..

 

[Xue Sheng]

Intersting note, from two seperate, but related conversations

May years ago, I told my Yang Shifu I was going to a Chen seminar with Chen Zhenglei. My shifu said
"Chen is a good taiji, but to low" and told me to say hello for him

I told Chen Zhenglei that my shifu said hello, he did not know who my shifu was, but he asked who his teacher was, and he knew who my shifu's teacher was .... Chen Zhenglei then said "Yang is good taijiquan, just to high"

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here we go with ufc armchair video again. Your video is not pertinent to this thread.

Those videos can help people to understand what "leg skill" is. Leg skill is more than just kicking.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Chen version

Yang version..

In Chang Taiji, I do "brush knee" with

- forearm parallel with the ground.
- palm facing down.
- fingertips facing forward.

 

[windwalker099]

you like to ask me for video.... and I will give you the same answer every single time...not a chance.... you see, my attitude is much the same as my teachers...... especially the old Chinese ones..... although some do have videos out there, but it is for $$ and teaching....

Maybe some confusion .

I asked those who talk a lot to show some of their work to see if they can do or clarify, what they talk about .

In most cases, they don’t.
Feel showing what one is talking about,
Is always better than writing about it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"Chen is a good taiji, but to low" ... "Yang is good taijiquan, just to high"

This is a good proof that someone had changed the original Taiji in order to satisfy the old people.

There is a good reason that Yang Taiji makes me to feel old, sick, and weak. This is why I want to bring my Taiji back to normal combat speed.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is a good proof that someone had changed the original Taiji in order to satisfy the old people.

There is a good reason that Yang Taiji makes me to feel old, sick, and weak. This is why I want to bring my Taiji back to normal combat speed.

I only see it as proof of different views of Taijiquan. They say Sun style is for old people, yet it is the most martially obvious style that has things in common with JKD

 

[marvin8]

Both are good videos. Thanks for sharing.

The 1st video uses the "leg spring, inner sweep" combo. The 2nd video uses "outer hook".

Rousey uses de ashi barai (advancing foot sweep) -> ouchi gari (major inner reap) -> kouchi gari (minor inner reap) -> kuchiki taoshi (knee pick, not needed).

1. Lure opponent by stepping and feinting foot sweep.
2. Listen as opponent steps around foot sweep lengthening stance. Dissolve/control with ouchi gari.
3. Attack with kouchi gari (scooping) -> kuchiki taoshi.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Those videos can help people to understand what "leg skill" is. Leg skill is more than just kicking.

I think it’s a poor argument to lean on videos, particularly if that is the only reference they make. I like it less each consecutive time they do it. I like UFC not at all. I believe it is the prostitution of the art. These young people are put out to pasture with crippled bodies after Dana White gets whatever mileage is in them. Only the top few make any real money, but be sure that Dana White gets the lions share of what they earn, just like any pimp/prostitute relationship. I despise it, and those that tout it as an expression of high skill. I find it particularly disgusting when it comes from armchair commentators that don’t train. How many of them will be fight worthy at the age of 55?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Maybe some confusion .

I asked those who talk a lot to show some of their work to see if they can do or clarify, what they talk about .

In most cases, they don’t.
Feel showing what one is talking about,
Is always better than writing about it.

I disagree. You write in a rather haughty and condescending tone, as if you believe you are the repository for knowledge and skill. Maybe that is so, and maybe not. I’m fine with showing what I do, in person. I don’t make videos because I don’t care a damn about validation from the internet. If people struggle to convince or make a point in writing, no amount of video will change that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Rousey uses de ashi barai (advancing foot sweep) -> ouchi gari (major inner reap) -> kouchi gari (minor inner reap) -> kuchiki taoshi (knee pick, not needed).

1. Lure opponent by stepping and feinting foot sweep.
2. Listen as opponent steps around foot sweep lengthening stance. Dissolve/control with ouchi gari.
3. Attack with kouchi gari (scooping) -> kuchiki taoshi.

You attack one leg; you then attack the other leg in opposite direction. By using this principle, you can map into many different combos.