The essence of Tai Chi push hand kung fu

[windwalker099]

I disagree. You write in a rather haughty and condescending tone, as if you believe you are the repository for knowledge and skill

wow

No Christmas card for you.

Feel free to post examples here or privately.
I’ll examine them, to understand this viewpoint.

 

[Xue Sheng]

wow

No Christmas card for you.

Feel free to post examples here or privately.
I’ll examine them, to understand this viewpoint.

Excuse me.... "You will examine them"... really...... you are not his, or anyone else in this threads, teacher.

 

[windwalker099]

Excuse me.... "You will examine them"... really...... you are not his, or anyone else in this threads, teacher.

To understand what he’s talking about if he is referring to my post?

Is there some problem with that?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

You attack one leg; you then attack the other leg in opposite direction. By using this principle, you can map into many different combos.

Yes, that is known as strategy, but it has little to do with how well someone performs it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

wow

No Christmas card for you.

Feel free to post examples here or privately.
I’ll examine them, to understand this viewpoint.

Doubling down won’t improve your standing, only a generous dose of humility could accomplish that. Christmas card not withstanding, I have little interest in your opinion whether public or private. As far as verbosity, you display a fine example. Please continue, I have nothing else to add.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

To understand what he’s talking about if he is referring to my post?

Is there some problem with that?

.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Excuse me.... "You will examine them"... really...... you are not his, or anyone else in this threads, teacher.

Exactly. Full of hubris, and video references, of other people.

 

[Xue Sheng]

To understand what he’s talking about if he is referring to my post?

Is there some problem with that?

Were you on MAP?

 

[windwalker099]

Both are good videos. Thanks for sharing.

The 1st video uses the "leg spring, inner sweep" combo. The 2nd video uses "outer hook".

If those leg skill can be integrated into the Taiji PH, it can add more value into it.

The videos
Reminded me of 씨름 (Ssireum).

In the late '70s, got to try some with some ROK soldiers at the urging of some of my troops who knew I practiced Northern Praying Mantis. Stationed in S-Korea at the time still under martial law..

They watching, laughing at the ROK's practicing ,,Me telling them they should try it...
Suddenly they said "why don't you try it "

..Something as their sergeant,
Lead by example , couldn't back down from.

Got thrown 2 out of 3 tries using their format..
Good stuff ...

The ROK's trained very tough, as soldiers and in their practice."

한국씨름연구소- 대한민국씨름 기술 10, 발기술-호미걸이(Raking Hook)
"Korean Wrestling Research Institute - Korean Wrestling Technique 10, Foot Technique - Homi Girl"

Push hand as "practice" already has leg skills just not in the way some think of it as
As a "competitive event" many use inner and outer hooks indirectly..

 

[Same Trick]

For you it means that..

For me, reading it refers to keeping round as in a ball. Don't be double-weighted, etc.

Is there a "correct"?

You have made references to mindset in push hands relative to your practice. I have expressed mine.

Of those I've met with similar mindsets to what you've mentioned didn't do too well in our encounters.
During my "practice", their "whatever" they felt it was didn't work out well .

some reading on mind set,

THE UNFETTERED MIND
WRITINGS OF THE ZEN MASTER TO THE SWORD MASTER

Unfortunately this has gotten quite as the other poster mentioned “verbose”, but yeah it’s a discussion forum so understandable. But I actually think we’re speaking the same thing, it’s just my language skill is lacking,

 

[Same Trick]

You know, i spent 30 years in Yang style Taijiquan and all total probably 5 or so years in Chen. I’m back at Chen and all i have to say is once you get to Yang style things get mystical, esoteric, intentionally confusing and overly verbose. But then some of this can be attributed to misunderstanding of, or not knowing of, Chinese idioms. And mistranslations, and/or misinterpretations. Could also be the incredibly large number of people doing Yang… or at least think they are doing Yang, as compared to any other taijiquan style

IMO Chen is much more direct and a lot less mystical

For example 13 postures
If there is a up there is down
Strike left pay attention to right

That gets over thought, over discussed, overly explained and overly mystified in Yang

It is simply talking about eyes and where to look.

Xingyiquan is even more direct, probably why i like it best.

And i mean no offense, but this thread had gone a long way in getting me to rethink my MA goals and seriously consider making Taijiquan secondary to me, if even that high on the list

Yeah, it has that meaning, but also the “deeper” thought of the duality reality, two poles of the same line, to find the correct center/balance between them, applies within oneself as well in sparring/fighting and all kind of encounter

 

[Same Trick]

Why does anybody want to carry a tiger back to mountain? It doesn't make any logic sense.

I believe it should be called "well fed tiger return back to mountain".

In Chinese both "饱 (Bao) - well fed" and "抱 (Bao) - carry" sound the same. In speaking, one may confuse "饱 (Bao) - well fed" with "抱 (Bao) - carry" in the past.

Yes, I think there was even disagreement on this among Yang Chengfu disciples.
The names of the postures for sure are there to convey a certain idea what’s going on, but the traditional Chinese got over poetic in this ambition.
The message I got out from the Chinese poetry of that posture is the tiger is the opponent that is handled such a way that he hits the hard surface of the ground ?

 

[windwalker099]

Unfortunately this has gotten quite as the other poster mentioned “verbose”, but yeah it’s a discussion forum so understandable. But I actually think we’re speaking the same thing, it’s just my language skill is lacking,

Your writing is good.
We are discussing the same "practice," but not the same aspects of it.

Yes it is a discussion

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes, I think there was even disagreement on this among Yang Chengfu disciples.
The names of the postures for sure are there to convey a certain idea what’s going on, but the traditional Chinese got over poetic in this ambition.
The message I got out from the Chinese poetry of that posture is the tiger is the opponent that is handled such a way that he hits the hard surface of the ground ?

For people who prefer

- "Carry tiger back to mountain", they map that move to "close hands" with both arms going up, separate, and come down before belly. This move may look like "lift something up".

- "Well fed tiger return back to mountain", they map that move to "after cross hands, you start to do brush knee twist step". That move looks like a tiger starts from a static posture (close hand) and start to move (right arm first, then left arm).

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yeah, it has that meaning, but also the “deeper” thought of the duality reality, two poles of the same line, to find the correct center/balance between them, applies within oneself as well in sparring/fighting and all kind of encounter

And that right there just proved my point..... thank you

 

[Xue Sheng]

I will likely throw my 2 cents in this thread from time to time...but overall, I am leaving the the pretentious esoterics for others to sound wise and mystical.... my over 30 years of training with teachers who needed no reason to be anything but clear and direct most certainly does not fit this discussion...TTFN

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

a meeting with

Master Wang Yongquan

This video can start many good discussions.

- Do you believe this video is real?
- What's the combat usage for this?
- If his opponent holds on his wrist, will he still be able to push his opponent away?

 

[windwalker099]

- What's the combat usage for this?
- If his opponent holds on his wrist, will he still be able to push his opponent away?

Do you mean like this ?

 

[Same Trick]

And that right there just proved my point..... thank you

yeah. But actually it’s not that deep at all, it’s just a method to find one’s center from where one can act relaxed and freely but yet focused an decisive.
It’s from the very basics of our reality, we experience and learn about it from the day we’re born, but as we go along we build up preferences that makes us lean to either this side or that side slightly sliding off balance - the taijitu may teach us to find the eventually lost ballance, it’s quite a simple concept, not that deep at all

 

[Xue Sheng]

posting error