The essence of Tai Chi push hand kung fu

[Kung Fu Wang]

ok.

I'm not.

Posted my views on PH, understanding the practice for many.

It's not my thing, except that in the circles I move in, one has to have the same skill sets to gain the respect of others before they pay any attention to what is said.

If one can do what some of the teachers show, they might find their answers there.
As for experience, everyone is responsible for their own, in accordance with their focus and interest.

MA is trying to solve problems. How can a Taiji guy use his PH skill to solve the problem of "under hook"?

What will a Taiji guy do if his opponent has passed his wrist gate, pass his elbow gate, and reach to his shoulder gate?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I just want to know how a Taiji guy be able to deal with under hook or over hook.

I apologize, you are talking wrestling not striking.... of course taiji can handle this. First you have to be in position to apply it, if your not, you can't. And Wu style taijiquan has an underhook in the form and it can be argued so does yang, saw an application of Snake creeps down that was an underhook...overhook, same thing, you need to get into position. A taijiquan guy is not just going to stand there and allow it.....There is a lot more to taijiquan than push hands.... you seem to not realize this

 

[windwalker099]

MA is trying to solve problems. How can a Taiji guy use his PH skill to solve the problem of "under hook"?

What will a Taiji guy do if his opponent has passed his wrist gate, pass his elbow gate, and reach to his shoulder gate?

Since you asked

MA is trying to solve problems.

Very true...although we may look at things a little differently.

To me, looks like the teacher is not controlling the left hand holding the knife
that he will get stabbed with, trying to do what is shown...

 

[windwalker099]

1) I am not a fan of Adam Mizner

2) There are other applications to single whip

Should that matter?

There are many ways to look at a movement, demo it based
on ones focus and skill set.

What he showed within his skill set range, is just one of them.

Found it interesting that he did not use the first point of contact, considering his many demos showing,
the first point of contact being the one used.

His background was in southern mantis before Taiji.
Seems like remnants of his previous training show through.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Should that matter?

There are many ways to look at a movement, demo it based
on ones focus and skill set.

What he showed within his skill set range, is just one of them.

Found it interesting that he did not use the first point of contact, considering his many demos showing,
the first point of contact being the one used.

His background was in southern mantis before Taiji.
Seems like remnants of his previous training show through.

Yes it matters, because to be honest, the second part of his application, the push away thing, is just plain silly....I agree with little he does...which is why I said, I am not a fan....... I am not a fan of others in Taijiquan as well, but some of those I agree with, he is usually not one of them.

 

[windwalker099]

Yes it matters, because to be honest, the second part of his application, the push away thing, is just plain silly....I agree with little he does...which is why I said, I am not a fan....... I am not a fan of others in Taijiquan as well, but some of those I agree with, he is usually not one of them.

Didn't care much for this demo either.

Many online his "detractors"
seem to have issues with this personality..

Do find his work interesting, as I do with many taiji teachers.
Even the ones I may not agree with.

Some of the groups I know in China, and other places hold his work
in high regard as a foreigner...achieving taiji skill.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Didn't care much for this demo either.

Many online his "detractors"
seem to have issues with this personality..

Do find his work interesting, as I do with many taiji teachers.
Even the ones I may not agree with.

Some of the groups I know in China, and other places hold his work
in high regard as a foreigner...achieving taiji skill.

I have issue with what he shows as being wrong and that he appears to enjoy abusing his students.

 

[windwalker099]

I have issue with what he shows as being wrong and that he appears to enjoy abusing his students.

Wrong in what way?


The older methods of training designed to weed out students, not clear about what the training was about.

Teachers I’ve had in the past pretty brutal in they’re teaching


.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Chang Taiji free flow sensitivity training:

 

[windwalker099]

This will be the Chang Taiji PH supposed to be.

Interesting drill... similar to other types of push-hand drills. What is the goal/focus of this training? Do you feel something is lacking in it, or does it address what you find lacking in other push-hand training?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Wrong in what way?


The older methods of training designed to weed out students, not clear about what the training was about.

Teachers I’ve had in the past pretty brutal in they’re teaching


.

Wrong in not realistic or usable in real life, not applicable, not following taiji principles, just plain silly

Had xingyi teachers who were rough too, but none seemed to enjoy abusing thier students like he does...look at some of his early videos

 

[windwalker099]

Wrong in not realistic or usable in real life, not applicable, not following taiji principles, just plain silly

"Wrong"

Kinda depends on what one has been exposed to and skill level. There are lots of demos I find myself not agreeing with.
The understanding of why one disagrees with something, often more important than what one agrees with.

As is often the case, an instructor should be able to clear up whatever some might find 'silly' in person.

In Adam's demo, it looked like he was attempting to keep within the flow and choreography of his solo practice, relating the movements to logical following sequences.

Some teachers might demonstrate this statically Adam, did, while others focus on a more dynamic, live flow.

like this teacher

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Interesting drill... similar to other types of push-hand drills. What is the goal/focus of this training? Do you feel something is lacking in it, or does it address what you find lacking in other push-hand training?

the goal is not to push your opponent away. The goal is to control your opponent and obtain a clinch.

Most of the Taiji PH only work on the wrist gate and elbow gate. This training includes the shoulder gate.

 

[windwalker099]

Most of the Taiji PH only work on the wrist gate and elbow gate. This training includes the shoulder gate.

Wondering if you've tried this with competitor's of push hands.
For example like this

 

[_Simon_]

Chang Taiji free flow sensitivity training:

Nice John, enjoyed that clip

We do a bit of that in class from time to time, moving from fixed drills to free flowing with certain goals in mind.

 

[isshinryuronin]

he appears to enjoy abusing his students.

Just one of the perks of being an MA instructor.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Wondering if you've tried this with competitor's of push hands.
For example like this

This is going backward (no leg skill allowed). I prefer to go forward and send my students to Sanda instead.

 

[Xue Sheng]

"Wrong"

Kinda depends on what one has been exposed to and skill level. There are lots of demos I find myself not agreeing with.
The understanding of why one disagrees with something, often more important than what one agrees with.

As is often the case, an instructor should be able to clear up whatever some might find 'silly' in person.

In Adam's demo, it looked like he was attempting to keep within the flow and choreography of his solo practice, relating the movements to logical following sequences.

Some teachers might demonstrate this statically Adam, did, while others focus on a more dynamic, live flow.

like this teacher

My Shifu was not impressed by him either, did not think he was all that good..... I'm done here, you want to be impressed by him, go for it, but do not expect me to be.

 

[windwalker099]

My Shifu was not impressed by him either, did not think he was all that good..... I'm done here, you want to be impressed by him, go for it, but do not expect me to be.

Never did.
Did you feel it was expected of you to be impressed by him?

Good to know "your" teacher is not impressed by him...
Is he speaking through you, or do you speak for him?

As to being done...

It's a discussion, sharing viewpoints. Some here have been around for a while.
It's always good and interesting to read what they choose to share.

Would hope you continue to share your viewpoint...
as well as others on the site.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Never did.
Did you feel it was expected of you to be impressed by him?

Good to know "your" teacher is not impressed by him...
Is he speaking through you, or do you speak for him?

As to being done...

It's a discussion, sharing viewpoints. Some here have been around for a while.
It's always good and interesting to read what they choose to share.

Would hope you continue to share your viewpoint...
as well as others on the site.

when things don't go your way you get offended I see...and a bit insulting.... interesting...

I am speaking for myself..... share all the view points you want.... my post was specifically about Adam Mizner who you continued to tell me about, who I already said I was not impressed by and that some of his applications were wrong and silly and he appears to like to abuse his students. You continued to come back at me with him trying to justify what he is doing, I can only assume in an attempt to get me to see the error of my ways.......And I said if you want to be impressed by him, go ahead, I'm not, and I won't be. Also that I am done discussing, meaning Adam Mizner..... so if you are looking for agreement on Adam Mizner, I am not the person to get that from..... now.....please...feel free to continue beating a dead horse......