The ball of the foot is a lot stronger than I gave it credit for

[seasoned]

It depends on what art you're training in and what the focus of the training is geared toward. Street defense vs dojo/tournament techniques are very different in what is acceptable as in above or below the waist. With that said I have always liked the front kick with the ball of the foot if done with intent and target low stomach. The higher you go with the front kick will have it's disadvantages using ball or heel. I prefer the front kick low with the heel and more for a street defense. So for me heel or ball depending on when and where.

 

[skribs]

I can't really tell you what you're doing wrong without seeing your technique, now can I?
I know that you're doing something wrong, but if you want more than that, you'll need to post video of your spinning hook kick.
And that's not an insult. It's a statement of fact. If you're insulted, well, that's between you and your ego.

Do you have any advice for me, then? Any questions for me that would help determine what I'm doing wrong?

Why do you say the heel is stronger? Or in what case would you opt for heel instead of thr ball of the foot?

 

[dvcochran]

I think people tend to use the kicks poorly in sparring. Often they square off and throw the kicks from a distance, without any setup. They are easy to see coming, and easy to block or evade. They don’t accomplish anything.

Instead, kicks should be used when an opening for them has been created. It needs to be set up properly. Get his hands engaged in something else, so he doesn’t see or cannot block the kick when it comes in.

I can only half agree with this. Kicks are just as easily used *** the setup to create the opening.

 

[dvcochran]

Yes! Many time.

Many years ago, when I visited the "5 tigers club" in NYC, during one sparring session, one guy got broken toes from this kind blocking. Back then I liked to use CMA fighting stance (not boxing guard but one long arm and one short arm). I always used my back palm to block my opponent's front kick (or side kick). I then dropped my front arm elbow straight down onto his instep. Most of the time, my elbow dropping would hit on the instep. Sometime my elbow dropping would hit on the toes.

In CMA, this is called the metal strategy. You kick me. I try to hurt your kicking leg.

I can buy toes getting jammed, it is common in TKD. But broken?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why do you say the heel is stronger?

The heel is stronger but has shorter reach. The ball of the foot is not as strong but has longer reach.

Here is a simple test.

Put a concrete block on table vertically. When you try to break it (instead of make it to fly away) with your spin hook kick, try to break it with your heel and also with your ball of the foot. You will find out that it's easier to break with the heel.

 

[dvcochran]

The heel is stronger but has shorter reach. The ball of the foot is not as strong but has longer reach.

Here is a simple test.

Put a concrete block on table vertically. When you try to break it (instead of make it to fly away) with your spin hook kick, try to break it with your heel and also with your ball of the foot. You will find out that it's easier to break with the heel.

Or, just walk. If you walk landing on the ball of the foot it will be a soft step (tip-toe). Walk landing only on the heels and it will be a jarring impact.

 

[Flying Crane]

I can only half agree with this. Kicks are just as easily used *** the setup to create the opening.

Yeah they can be. A lot of what I see, they don’t do it well.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There's a mitigating factor in the heel's power. I'd guess folks who've done TKD a while don't ever run into it as much in their kicks: flexibility. I can reach both low and high targets better, with more power, with the ball of my foot. Why? Because my hamstring is strung like a high E on a guitar, and pulling the calf tight (by pulling the foot back) only adds to this. I can kick at head height with the ball of the foot (or in a roundhouse), but I max out around sternum height (with a lot of lost power) if I use the heel. So, while the heel technically has more power (less cushioning in the mechanism to absorb some of the force), I always am able to generate more power with a front kick (I'm entirely unsure if that's the same term used in TKD) if I use the ball of the foot, unless the kick is near knee level.

 

[skribs]

The heel is stronger but has shorter reach. The ball of the foot is not as strong but has longer reach.

Here is a simple test.

Put a concrete block on table vertically. When you try to break it (instead of make it to fly away) with your spin hook kick, try to break it with your heel and also with your ball of the foot. You will find out that it's easier to break with the heel.

I've found it easier to break things with the ball of the foot.

Or, just walk. If you walk landing on the ball of the foot it will be a soft step (tip-toe). Walk landing only on the heels and it will be a jarring impact.

A step is more similar to a side kick than an ax kick or hook kick.

There's a mitigating factor in the heel's power. I'd guess folks who've done TKD a while don't ever run into it as much in their kicks: flexibility. I can reach both low and high targets better, with more power, with the ball of my foot. Why? Because my hamstring is strung like a high E on a guitar, and pulling the calf tight (by pulling the foot back) only adds to this. I can kick at head height with the ball of the foot (or in a roundhouse), but I max out around sternum height (with a lot of lost power) if I use the heel. So, while the heel technically has more power (less cushioning in the mechanism to absorb some of the force), I always am able to generate more power with a front kick (I'm entirely unsure if that's the same term used in TKD) if I use the ball of the foot, unless the kick is near knee level.

For front kicks, yes. For the ax kick this is mitigated unless you are at the apex of the kick. For the spinning hook kick, your foot should be parallel to the ground, so this is largely a non-issue.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Do you have any advice for me, then? Any questions for me that would help determine what I'm doing wrong?

Without actually seeing what you're doing, all I can say is it's not right.

Why do you say the heel is stronger? Or in what case would you opt for heel instead of thr ball of the foot?

One big solid knob of bone, vs a bunch of small bones. Which do YOU think is going to be stronger? Do you pound nails with a whisk? Or, you have two branches to choose from for a club. They have the same overall mass. But one is a single piece with a knob on the end. The other is skinny, with a bunch of branches and twigs. Which are you going to choose?
I use the ball of the foot for sparring, because it will not hit as hard if my control slips. I might possibly use it if I desperately needed an inch or so more reach (because I screwed up the distancing and timing) and was willing to give up power to just make contact.
I use the heel when I want to break the target.

 

[skribs]

Without actually seeing what you're doing, all I can say is it's not right.



One big solid knob of bone, vs a bunch of small bones. Which do YOU think is going to be stronger? Do you pound nails with a whisk? Or, you have two branches to choose from for a club. They have the same overall mass. But one is a single piece with a knob on the end. The other is skinny, with a bunch of branches and twigs. Which are you going to choose?
I use the ball of the foot for sparring, because it will not hit as hard if my control slips. I might possibly use it if I desperately needed an inch or so more reach (because I screwed up the distancing and timing) and was willing to give up power to just make contact.
I use the heel when I want to break the target.

I typically impact primarily with the bone from my big toe (similar to how you would punch with the first 2 knuckles of your hand).

Even if you hit with the whole ball of your foot, it's better than a whisk or a bunch of twigs, because it's held together by sinew and skin. If you take a branch with a bunch of twigs and tie them together, it will be more effective than if left untamed.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I typically impact primarily with the bone from my big toe (similar to how you would punch with the first 2 knuckles of your hand).

Even if you hit with the whole ball of your foot, it's better than a whisk or a bunch of twigs, because it's held together by sinew and skin. If you take a branch with a bunch of twigs and tie them together, it will be more effective than if left untamed.

And do you really think it's as effective as the club? Come on.
There's a reason why clubs and maces and such are single pieces, not a bunch of twigs tied together.

 

[skribs]

And do you really think it's as effective as the club? Come on.
There's a reason why clubs and maces and such are single pieces, not a bunch of twigs tied together.

So in this situation is my heelbone sticking out through the skin? Take both of those clubs and wrap leather around them. This will help concentrate the twigs (because you won't waste momentum on the twigs that don't strike) and it will provide padding and a wider surface area for the knobbed club.
Now factor in that if we're talking the same proportions, you've got a knobbed club that's 18" long, and a twigged club that's 24" long. The size of the leather arm is a big part of why we use weapons in the first place (and why quarterstaff is a very good weapon).

Your post doesn't address that I typically impact with one bone (maybe 2) and not all 5 bones, when I am trying to use the ball of the foot to break.

 

[drop bear]

I typically impact primarily with the bone from my big toe (similar to how you would punch with the first 2 knuckles of your hand).

Even if you hit with the whole ball of your foot, it's better than a whisk or a bunch of twigs, because it's held together by sinew and skin. If you take a branch with a bunch of twigs and tie them together, it will be more effective than if left untamed.

There is nowhere for your heel to go. So I put pressure on the direction of the kick the heel won't move.

The ball requires you to hold the foot in place.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

For front kicks, yes. For the ax kick this is mitigated unless you are at the apex of the kick. For the spinning hook kick, your foot should be parallel to the ground, so this is largely a non-issue.

Well, I have an entirely different issue with the axe kick...namely, that I have no idea how to do one, so I'm not sure ball or heel matters much.

 

[paitingman]

You can absolutely break things easily doing a hooking kick with the ball of the foot.

But in my experience, you will never be able to SMASH something like you could if you got the heel in there.
The difference is incomparable.

 

[dvcochran]

A step is more similar to a side kick than an ax kick or hook kick.

The physics regarding the ankle are the same. The effect of taking the ankle motion out of the equation is the point. Often in sparring I will use the ball of the foot on an Ax kick for distance and partner safety. That has nothing to do with power which would, of course, be the street application of an Ax kick.
​

For front kicks, yes. For the ax kick this is mitigated unless you are at the apex of the kick. For the spinning hook kick, your foot should be parallel to the ground, so this is largely a non-issue.

When I do a spinning hook kick in sparring or breaking, I use more of the back side of the heel where the Achilles attaches for the same reason, to factor out the ankle movement. In the past, I have done them pronated (which I think you are describing) and on a very hard hit it feel like I am jamming my ankle. I still hold to my above statement.

 

[dvcochran]

Yeah they can be. A lot of what I see, they don’t do it well.

Not sure what happened to my post. I did not intend to type anything "xxx".
We see a lot of very different things. From what I see using a kick to set up an opening works very well.

 

[skribs]

I

Not sure what happened to my post. I did not intend to type anything "xxx".
We see a lot of very different things. From what I see using a kick to set up an opening works very well.

Think you added an extra "s" to the word "as" and it blocked it.

There was a forum for a first person shooter game that I got censored on because a word that is perfectly fine in the context of firearms or landfowl, is also slang for something else. It happens.

 

[skribs]

When I do a spinning hook kick in sparring or breaking, I use more of the back side of the heel where the Achilles attaches for the same reason, to factor out the ankle movement. In the past, I have done them pronated (which I think you are describing) and on a very hard hit it feel like I am jamming my ankle. I still hold to my above statement.

"Where the Achilles attaches."

That just sounds like all kinds of recipe for disaster.