The ball of the foot is a lot stronger than I gave it credit for

[Gerry Seymour]

Provided you don't kick with shoes and fall over. The difference isn't significant.

So mabye you could say that you get an extra inch with a pointy toe. But you loose out on timing if you haven't been throwing pointy toe kicks.

The main difference is mobility (both good and bad, at the same time). Leather-soled shoes pivot like bare feet, but slip easier. Rubber-soled shoes pivot quite differently, but are much more stable. Beyond that, I've not found a big need to change things if the surface is reasonable, unless it's to take advantage of a part of the shoe (the hard heel of a dress shoe, for instance).

 

[Flying Crane]

Training front kicks with the heel is, I would say, generally a mistake.
.

I will disagree with you on the front kick. Thrusting with the heel is very effective.

Of course a front snap kick can be done with the ball of the foot or the instep, depending on the target.

All three are effective when properly selected and applied.

 

[Flying Crane]

I was thinking recently about how our kicks would change if we trained with our shoes on.

And not the TKD shoes, either, but actual shoes.

I always train in regular athletic shoes. It does change how you kick.

 

[skribs]

@Dirty Dog

You still have presented 0 evidence to back up your argument, other than professing the duration of your experience. Please either tell me how I'm wrong or how I can improve, or else stop insulting me.

Don't just mark "disagree" if you can't provide some sort of argument other than "because I say".

 

[skribs]

I will disagree with you on the front kick. Thrusting with the heel is very effective.

Of course a front snap kick can be done with the ball of the foot or the instep, depending on the target.

All three are effective when properly selected and applied.

I differentiate between the front pushing kick and the front snap kick. In most situations, I find that the heel requires a much higher kick to achieve the same result, and my experience has been that you usually trade power and speed for height.

The times I can see the heel being more effective than instep or ball-of-foot are on lower targets like the knee.

 

[Flying Crane]

I differentiate between the front pushing kick and the front snap kick. In most situations, I find that the heel requires a much higher kick to achieve the same result, and my experience has been that you usually trade power and speed for height.

The times I can see the heel being more effective than instep or ball-of-foot are on lower targets like the knee.

People seem to want to define a front kick with the heel as a “push”. I disagree. The way we use it is definitely an impacting strike. Try it on a heavy bag.

Proper target selection is important. If you find it works best for you on low targets, then use it for that. I am very comfortable using it up to a bit above waist level. I am not a fan of high kicks, so that is a good level for me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You have seen or done this successfully?

Yes! Many time.

Many years ago, when I visited the "5 tigers club" in NYC, during one sparring session, one guy got broken toes from this kind blocking. Back then I liked to use CMA fighting stance (not boxing guard but one long arm and one short arm). I always used my back palm to block my opponent's front kick (or side kick). I then dropped my front arm elbow straight down onto his instep. Most of the time, my elbow dropping would hit on the instep. Sometime my elbow dropping would hit on the toes.

In CMA, this is called the metal strategy. You kick me. I try to hurt your kicking leg.

 

[skribs]

People seem to want to define a front foot with the heel as a “push”. I disagree. The way we use it is definitely an impacting strike. Try it on a heavy bag.

Proper target selection is important. If you find it works best for you on low targets, then use it for that. I am very comfortable using it up to a bit above waist level. I am not a fan of high kicks, so that is a good level for me.

That might be why you see the heel as better, if your target is waist level and below. In Taekwondo, we typically train kicks for chest-to-head level.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes! Many time.

Many years ago, when I visited the "5 tigers club" in NYC, during one sparring session, one guy got broken toes from this kind blocking. Back then I liked to use CMA fighting stance (not boxing guard but one long arm and one short arm). I always used my back palm to block my opponent's front kick (or side kick). I then dropped my front arm elbow straight down onto his instep. Most of the time, my elbow dropping would hit on the instep. Sometime my elbow dropping would hit on the toes.

In CMA, this is called the metal strategy. You kick me. I try to hurt your kicking leg.

I think people tend to use the kicks poorly in sparring. Often they square off and throw the kicks from a distance, without any setup. They are easy to see coming, and easy to block or evade. They don’t accomplish anything.

Instead, kicks should be used when an opening for them has been created. It needs to be set up properly. Get his hands engaged in something else, so he doesn’t see or cannot block the kick when it comes in.

 

[Flying Crane]

That might be why you see the heel as better, if your target is waist level and below. In Taekwondo, we typically train kicks for chest-to-head level.

Yes, I am not talking about competition matches with a focus on high kicks. I was responding to a comment that front kicks with the heel are generally a mistake. I guess within certain contexts that can be true. Within other contexts that is absolutely not true.

 

[Dirty Dog]

@Dirty Dog

You still have presented 0 evidence to back up your argument, other than professing the duration of your experience. Please either tell me how I'm wrong or how I can improve, or else stop insulting me.

Don't just mark "disagree" if you can't provide some sort of argument other than "because I say".

I can't really tell you what you're doing wrong without seeing your technique, now can I?
I know that you're doing something wrong, but if you want more than that, you'll need to post video of your spinning hook kick.
And that's not an insult. It's a statement of fact. If you're insulted, well, that's between you and your ego.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But what do I know. I've only been doing TKD for 50 years.

May be you can help me on these TKD questions. Thanks in advance!

1. Do you think hook kick (or spin hook kick) with the ball of the foot (not with heel) can have enough knock down power?
2. Do TKD guys train front heel kick (not front toe push kick with the ball)?
3. Do TKD guys always like to kick on the concrete wall?
4. Is the following kicking drill commonly trained by all TKD guys?

- Stand on left leg, right front kick, right side kick, right back kick (no foot landing between kicks).
- Stand on right leg, left front kick, left side kick, left back kick.
- Repeat.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

kicks should be used when an opening for them has been created. It needs to be set up properly. Get his hands engaged in something else, so he doesn’t see or cannot block the kick when it comes in.

You (general YOU) can use punch to set up kick. You can also use kick to set up punch. Since you have to enter the kicking range before you can enter the punching range, most of the time, people use kick to set up punch.

When I kick, I want my opponent to drop his arm to block my kick. This way I will have 2 hands to deal with his 1 hand.

 

[Flying Crane]

You (general YOU) can use punch to set up kick. You can also use kick to set up punch. Since you have to enter the kicking range before you can enter the punching range, most of the time, people use kick to set up punch.

When I kick, I want my opponent to drop his arm to block my kick. This way I will have 2 hands to deal with his 1 hand.

Sure. But you risk getting your toes broken in the same way you described.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sure. But you risk getting your toes broken in the same way you described.

Have you ever throw a punch, when you sense your opponent's arm is trying to block it, you pull your punch back, and let his blocking to hit into the thin air?

The moment that I can sense my opponent's intention to drop his arm, the moment my foot start to land on the ground, my fist will then move toward his face.

I use kick to close the distance. I don't use kick to hurt my opponent. Also I alway have my shoes on.

 

[Flying Crane]

Have you ever throw a punch, when you sense your opponent's arm is trying to block it, you pull your punch back, and let his blocking to hit into the thin air?

The moment that I can sense my opponent's intention to drop his arm, the moment my foot start to land on the ground, my fist will then move toward his face.

I use kick to close the distance. I don't use kick to hurt my opponent. Also I alway have my shoes on.

Fair enough, you are using as a setup. My earlier observation is that a lot of people do not, or at least do not do it well. They just hop around at distance, throwing kicks at each other that would be unlikely to land even if their opponent just stood there. No setup, no commitment to making it land, no purpose in it, nothing accomplished. In that case, they are easy to evade or block, or break the toes.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In Taekwondo, we typically train kicks for chest-to-head level.

To use your foot to kick on your opponent's head is the same as to use your fist to punch on your opponent's foot. Both are against the human body natural design.

 

[Gnarlie]

To use your foot to kick on your opponent's head is the same as to use your fist to punch on your opponent's foot. Both are against the human body natural design.

Depends where you put your opponent's head.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Dirty Dog]

May be you can help me on these TKD questions. Thanks in advance!

1. Do you think hook kick (or spin hook kick) with the ball of the foot (not with heel) can have enough knock down power?

Define "enough"... it's possible to knock someone down (or out) with the ball of the foot. But given the movement of the ankle, it's pretty much inevitable that (done properly) the impact with the heel with be harder. Your reach is a little shorter, though.

2. Do TKD guys train front heel kick (not front toe push kick with the ball)?

This is trained for pushing, but not as a kick, in my experience.

3. Do TKD guys always like to kick on the concrete wall?

I don't know what you're asking.

4. Is the following kicking drill commonly trained by all TKD guys?

- Stand on left leg, right front kick, right side kick, right back kick (no foot landing between kicks).
- Stand on right leg, left front kick, left side kick, left back kick.
- Repeat.

There's probably not anything that is trained by ALL TKD schools, but it's certainly very common to train combos without touching the foot down between kicks. Not for beginners, in my experience. I'd expect a 7th geup to be starting to do this.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

To use your foot to kick on your opponent's head is the same as to use your fist to punch on your opponent's foot. Both are against the human body natural design.

Not nearly the same, actually. I can kick a head quickly, without drastic changes in stance. To reach down to a foot would require a drastic change in more than just stance. I'd rather punch the head than kick it, but I also know I can generate more power with my leg, and can reach that head in some cases where my hand wouldn't.