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rmcrobertson
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- Thread Starter
- #121
Does the Bogu gear have any of that heavy armor below the belt?
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Mike Clarke
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- Thread Starter
- #122
Gee this conversation has taken off hasn't it!!!!
Kenneth, in my article I was expressing the view that many groups today pass people out as dan grades that don't have a good understanding of their system, they are simply victims of someones need to make a living from karate.
As for classical karate training not being good for self defence?
Again my point was addressing the way karate is taught in many places these days. Hoshin, purpose, this is key to understanding the art you're involved in. We have many people today who don't understand this and seem to think that training in karate is a 'one size fits all' answer to everything from character building to fighting off a thug in a dark ally.
My point was, if you want karate to work in a real fight, this has to be part of your purpose for going to the dojo and so you need to train with this in mind. If you're not bothered about such things, then you should be focussed on other aspects of the art.
But thinking one way and training another will leave you with very little in either camp.
RyushinKan,
Young bulls and old bulls. Youth,as they say, is often wasted on the young. But then this is nature I guess?
Also, some folk think that because this is being played out on a computer in their own home or office, they don't have to have the same good manners they would show at training. Hence the 'attitude' we see from some.
Mike.
Kenneth, in my article I was expressing the view that many groups today pass people out as dan grades that don't have a good understanding of their system, they are simply victims of someones need to make a living from karate.
As for classical karate training not being good for self defence?
Again my point was addressing the way karate is taught in many places these days. Hoshin, purpose, this is key to understanding the art you're involved in. We have many people today who don't understand this and seem to think that training in karate is a 'one size fits all' answer to everything from character building to fighting off a thug in a dark ally.
My point was, if you want karate to work in a real fight, this has to be part of your purpose for going to the dojo and so you need to train with this in mind. If you're not bothered about such things, then you should be focussed on other aspects of the art.
But thinking one way and training another will leave you with very little in either camp.
RyushinKan,
Young bulls and old bulls. Youth,as they say, is often wasted on the young. But then this is nature I guess?
Also, some folk think that because this is being played out on a computer in their own home or office, they don't have to have the same good manners they would show at training. Hence the 'attitude' we see from some.
Mike.
cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
FYI, you are correct sir, the name Taekwondo is a relatively new term for our martial art. This moniker was created in the mid 1950's. In short, TKD merged several kwons or Korean martial art schools into one unified Korean style...:asian:
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fringe_dweller
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- Thread Starter
- #124
(/sage voice on)
Desiring to master an art is of no disservice to any - claiming to have mastered an art is another matter.
(/sage voice off)
Desiring to master an art is of no disservice to any - claiming to have mastered an art is another matter.
(/sage voice off)
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RyuShiKan
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- Thread Starter
- #125
You never really get used to it.....and it usually is not that "fun", but it does keep you humble and is one HELL of a work out.
There used to be a T-Shirt some of our Assoc. Members had.
It said:
Bogu Kumite: No Winners, No Losers.....on survivors.
It works very well.
We use it to spar full contact with Bo, Jo, Tanbo (looks like two Escrima Sticks) and so on.
The Bogu on that link is not the same.
The plastic stuff is not good for any kind of weapons sparring.
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Rainman
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- Thread Starter
- #126
I disagree. It is quite fun. Injuries are not, that's why we have doctors and chiropractors. Allowing subconscious and concious states to converge in an action reaction arena is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
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J-kid
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- Thread Starter
- #127
Intresting posts, Yet i still have the belief that anyone can master anything. If anyone tells you diffrent there telling you wrong. Maybe its because there afraid or mislead themselves.
Lets break down mastering,
in my previous post i noted what i believe it is,
Lets see what other people think.
My veiws are if you have all the skills down perfectly, have skill also grace, But most of all i think you should have the funess of the art.
I dont think age has much to do with it.
Also i think chi is a load of Horse...*****
Prove to me its real if you can.... ( a challeng to anyone)
But sure let a rip what do you guys think mastering means.
PS this thread really went crazy, I kind of like it.
Lets break down mastering,
in my previous post i noted what i believe it is,
Lets see what other people think.
My veiws are if you have all the skills down perfectly, have skill also grace, But most of all i think you should have the funess of the art.
I dont think age has much to do with it.
Also i think chi is a load of Horse...*****
Prove to me its real if you can.... ( a challeng to anyone)
But sure let a rip what do you guys think mastering means.
PS this thread really went crazy, I kind of like it.
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RyuShiKan
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- Thread Starter
- #128
That reminds me of a scene from the movie Colors.
Two bulls are sitting up on a hill and down in the valley they see a bunch of cows.
The young bull says: hey, lets run down there and "get" one of those cows
To which the older bull says: no, lets walk down and "get" them all
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Totally off topic, but it is my understanding that in all actuality, originally TKD was nothing more than "Koreanized" Shotokan Karate-do...
Perhaps over the years (after divesting itself of the Shotokan kata and instituting the practice of "homegrown" forms) it has become its own legitimately Korean martial art, its original roots are really in Japan.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Well said.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Well, again, it is a question of semantics... What does "master" mean to the person who is either using or hearing that word? If you mean to become physically proficient in the performance of a given technique or a limited body of knowledge, then sure. That can be accomplished, and likely within a relatively short period of time. But there are many others who hear that word and feel it communicated far more than simple technical proficiency. It is this elusive quality of the term that takes a lifetime or more to develop, hence the reaction that "mastering" many styles may well be virtually impossible, since "mastering" one would take a lifetime.
Skills, grace and what? What is "funess?" Do you mean "finesse?" I'm not trying to be uppity and make you seem ill educated, just trying to figure out what word you are trying to use... Not everyone is an accomplished writer (nor am I).
Well, as age is the passage of time, and skills like you describe take time to develop, and development of certain physical skills is possible while young though hampered and constrained by the transition from childhood through puberty/adolescence and into adulthood (as an example, think about Oksana Baiyoul... she was an Olympic champion as a child, but when she started to mature her skills went all to hell... it was very difficult for her, as a young adult, to reclaim even a portion of her prior ability), age has much to do with the maturing of physical ability. A child blackbelt is just that - a child. There is the possibility that that child will be better enabled to develop skill through adolescence if they train very hard, but in general the changes from child to adult will get in the way of many things (ya just can't do some of the same things when you start getting a little older!
). But a person with 20 years of training under their belt by age 25 really means they probably have only about 5 - 8 years of really applicable training time, since they have only had that body for that long...Age also begets wisdom based on experience. Let's not forget that age and experience will always beat youth and exuberance...
I extended the invitation to you once before quite some time back for you to come up and check out the Yiliquan group in Puyallup. Email me at [email protected] if you are interested in coming out and seeing what we do and how we do it. We will demonstrate what qi really is, not the mystical Darth Vader stuff folks like to believe in (which is wholly untrue).
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
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MartialArtist
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- Thread Starter
- #133
The 10,000 days was just a metaphor for meaning it takes a long time to be very good at it.Originally posted by RyuShiKan
He most likely did pull it out of his a$$ ..but he did it after killing 60 people in duels by the time he was 30.
Maybe with all the fights to the death you have won you have a better number? (joking)
However he wrote those words when he was about 60 years old and added that he now knew he didnt win by skill and said it was most likely luck.
I dont know about Mikes view but in mine it would suggest that many ..too many dojo have gone the way of the business instead of the way of the defensive art.
Which produce kuchibushi (mouth warriors) that can talk a good game but cant walk it like they talk it when things get going.
Case in point:
In my dojo we spar full contact with bogu gear. (see photo)
My enrollment drops after each time we do bogu. If I announce we will be doing bogu the next class only the serious folks show up.
Many of the people in my dojo come from other styles some as high a 5th dan so they are not all beginners.
One guy claimed to be the All Osaka Champion when he was in University. The guy couldnt last 1 round of bogu.
Full contact sparring is not what I would call real Karate but it is a bit like Marine Corps boot camp .it weeds out the nut cases & falsely brave .
Mike,
Why is it so many of the young guys on these boards that havent trained very long seem to think they have all the answers and most of the old guys on these boards that have been there and done that seem to have only more questions than answers when they train weird eh .
Just like when you say you did it a hundred times, or a million times.
So I think both of you are right.
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MartialArtist
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- Thread Starter
- #134
TKD was a name invented around the 50's, but it was a name that the Korean MA schools went under to be more "united" and since it was after the Japanese left...
But, jidokwan and the other stuff like the hwa rang chivalry is generally viewed by most people under the name TKD.
However, the roots of TKD (although there was a lot of heavy Japanese influence in the TKD) go way back.
http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd2.htm
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MartialArtist
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- Thread Starter
- #135
Look at the dictionary term for mastery.
Possession of consummate skill - meaning you have to be perfect in almost every way. It is pretty much impossible to master one art nonetheless multiple arts in a dozen lifetime.
You are using some pep talks to support your ideas. And also, you're interpreting the pep talks in the wrong way. What your instructor/trainer/coach is telling you is you can become good, but pretty much, you can't master anything in reality although it seems some reach a very high level of skill that is like mastery.
Sorry, but life doesn't go that way. It is true if you give enough effort and heart, you can pretty much do anything you want. That includes becomming a state champion in wrestling in a couple of years, or making a self-improvement.
However, I can not say that you can be a state champion in wrestling after only a year of experience. That is just not possible, not enough time. 1 out of a million and in a state where wrestling is not big, then yes, but you just don't have enough time or experience to learn everything and burn it down into your CNS and develop it as instinct.
Or, no matter how hard you try, I can say that you will never be in the NFL.
What you're saying in mastering multiple arts is like saying you will be an all-star (meaning MVP or being in the Pro Bowl at least, or the All-Star game, etc.) in football, basketball, soccer, sprinting, swimming, and baseball.
Mastery means you can't really improve on your technique or skill any longer, and that's not true. Everyone in the NFL improves daily, so they didn't even master ONE sport.
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Pyros
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- Thread Starter
- #136
Well I read that site earlier and found lots of it quite suspicious. Then I asked around and my suspicions were confirmed. Personally I don't trust much of stuff written on http://www.hwarangdo.com/ but that's my choice.
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RyuShiKan
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- #137
The Koreans may have incorporated Hwarang principles into TKD but those kata they originally did in TKD came from good old Japanese Shotokan. They may have re-invented TKD history to make it more homegrown but there is too much evidence that points to Japan as being the birth place of TKD.
I looked at the URL you enclosed.
I like the photo of the Korean guy jumping in the air with the Japanese katana.
Also, did you notice there seem to be more than a few Japanese arts mentioned on there
However, I do like this on the training page:
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fissure
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- #138
I started training in TKD many yrs. ago, after beginning my MA adventures with Judo and Shotokan. At the time I was forced to switch from Karate to TKD, many dojang still used their "original" poomse/kata in addition to the new Palgwae or Taeguek forms. Ryushikan is correct, these "original" TKD forms were the same as Shotokan's. Heian - Pinan, Bassai Dai- Bal Sek, Meikyo(Ro hai) - Lo hai.If you look at the TKD of 20 yrs. ago, before Olympic sparring was introduced, the classes were the same as Shotokan. Personally I don't see the shame in admitting the roots of TKD - but then again I'm not Korean!
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RyuShiKan
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- #139
I have yet to meet a Korean that will say Korea got TKD from Japan. But I guess it's with good reason too .the Japanese occupied Korea on at least 2 occasions for long periods of time and treated them like dirt.
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fissure
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- #140
Don't forget that TKD (especially the Olympic competition side) is big business. Making TKD a completely Korean thing can only be good for them!
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