The Arts i plan on mastering / What is Mastering really mean?

[Qasim]

Originally posted by Qasim
You posted after my edit was already posted. It was up there for less than a minute as I'd decided not to give you anything else to steer away from the subject. Yet again you go off the subject.

That look like a denial to anyone? It looks like I said that I edited my post immediately after. You've still not addressed the subject of this thread.

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Good Point.
With all the terms people are using like “proficiency” and “mastery” I wonder if we should define what they mean since they seem to mean different things to different people.

Judo kid started the thread, and in that he defines what he's talking about. Remember it's his dicussion, and that he asked about which styles we would like to master.

I understand that mastry for him is to be able to beat up evebody else in that style.

He didn't define proficiency. We could ask him???

/Yari

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Qasim
That look like a denial to anyone? It looks like I said that I edited my post immediately after. You've still not addressed the subject of this thread.

No but this does.

Originally posted by Qasim
That's an interesting quote that you have up there from me. It isn't in my post.

Originally posted by Qasim
You've still not addressed the subject of this thread.

Is that so.......this is a couple of pages back incase you missed it.

quote: Originally posted by Judo-kid Well i believe you can become a master By mastering teaching ablity , all the skills , the technics and the grace of the art.


You have to be a student first, and even after you become a teacher you are still a student.
Take it from someone who has been teaching longer than you have been alive.


quote: Originally posted by Judo-kid I dont believe in ******** chi maybe you do thats fine.


I didn’t either when I was about your age.
quote: Originally posted by Judo-kid I am christen and that would be against my relegion.


I think you mean Christian & religion, don’t you?
I’m Catholic and it’s not against mine. Do you think Chi training is some kind of religion?


quote: Originally posted by Judo-kid But for anyone else who wants to believe in it thats fine and i wish you the best of luck shooting fire balls or what not.


When you make un-educated statements like this your respectability goes down.
quote: Originally posted by Judo-kid I believe it takes a good time to master the arts but it can be done and i will do it. Best of luck to you all Judo-kid.


While I can understand your desire and agree that you should try to accomplish that goal I have serious doubts about it happening.
You might become very good at one or all of the arts but to master any one of them to their fullest will take a life time. Take it from people that have walked the path before you.
My teacher is 75 years old, he has trained for about 60 years and says he is "maybe" only half way there.
Think about it.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Good Point.
With all the terms people are using like “proficiency” and “mastery” I wonder if we should define what they mean since they seem to mean different things to different people.

Proficiency : Competence derived from training and practice. eg. Proficient in the use of a language.

In normal usage, you can say you are proficient in the use of a language or you have mastered a language.

In the context used here, I believe we are referring to mastery as becoming the authority in a MA, ie to have mastered all the skills and knowledge involved and is at the leading edge at advancing the knowledge and skills boundary of that MA. Whereas, being proficient at it , means you are competent at it.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yari
Judo kid started the thread, and in that he defines what he's talking about. Remember it's his dicussion, and that he asked about which styles we would like to master.

I understand that mastry for him is to be able to beat up evebody else in that style.

He didn't define proficiency. We could ask him???

/Yari

Since “mastery” and “proficiency” are a bit ambiguous maybe we should give a brief but concise idea of what we consider them to be when we reply. Just so there is not so much confusion.

 

[Qasim]

Judo-Kid,

Right now you have high goals, and there is nothing wrong with that. Please take heed to what everyone is saying to you. It is merely advise that will keep you from feeling that you've failed if you don't make it.

Of those fighting styles that you wish to study, choose one to put your all into, and try to master that. Don't stop training in the others, but take from them that which is best.

Good luck. :asian:

 

[Master of Blades]

I can see only more arguments for this post.....:shrug:


On a more pleasant note, the more and more I read of Whitebelts posts the more I like you. Glad your enjoying MT :asian:

 

[Qasim]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I can see only more arguments for this post.....:shrug:


On a more pleasant note, the more and more I read of Whitebelts posts the more I like you. Glad your enjoying MT :asian:

Only as long as we have posts by people who feel they don't have time to educate anyone and aren't getting paid to do it.

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Since “mastery” and “proficiency” are a bit ambiguous maybe we should give a brief but concise idea of what we consider them to be when we reply. Just so there is not so much confusion.

I don't mind defining my veiw on mastery, or proficiency. But as everthing else we'll end up with just as many definitions as posts. It'll give us a main stream idea, but not an answer.

If we want to discuss J-K's thread, it's has to be on his definitions. We have to accept them. If we press our own definitions on to him, we only suceed in telling him what we want, and not accepting him for what he whants. If we want clarification, ask him.

If you still want my definition:

Mastery - to have the style become you, and you become the style

Proficiency - to have been taught all the techniques in a style (not nessarly understanding it)

/Yari

 

[RyuShiKan]

Here is a definition I use that was written by Musashi and then borrowed by a bunch of others:

Basically it goes something like "it takes 10,000 days to be proficient in a style and a lifetime to master it."

10,000 days is about 27.3 years I meet very few people that have trained that long .....let alone in one art

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Qasim
Only as long as we have posts by people who feel they don't have time to educate anyone and aren't getting paid to do it.

Point taken, but if were going to try and educate this kid (What am I saying he's older then me! ) Can we at least do it in a positive way and not argueing over who is teaching the right thing or not etc........Oh I give up, go ahead and do whatever :shrug:

 

[J-kid]

oK PEOPLE


The whole point of this thread is woundering *IF YOU COULD MASTER A ART* or ARTS in my chase what arts would it be.

Not *You cant do that J-kid* This thread was not suppost to be about this but rather what arts you wish to learn to the utmost. Jeez

 

[Master of Blades]

Coulda told us that before we spent all this time argueing :shrug:

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Here is a definition I use that was written by Musashi and then borrowed by a bunch of others:

Basically it goes something like "it takes 10,000 days to be proficient in a style and a lifetime to master it."

10,000 days is about 27.3 years I meet very few people that have trained that long .....let alone in one art

Okay, okay, forget about the J-kid for a moment. If we base our definitions of mastery and proficiency on the info provided by RyuShiKan then I just want to become competent in my primary art. How about that...:wink:

 

[KennethKu]

I know this is definitely gonna make me the most unpopular person here, for saying this. Musashi was full of it. People who made those claims about taking long long time to learn a martial art were/are mostly interested in keeping newcomers at bay.

Since I will be needing fire support, I am taking the pre-emptive strike of bringing out this site.

http://www.24fightingchickens.com/shotokan/index.html

Knock yourselves out. It is unlike any martial art site you have seen.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Moderator Note:
This thread has drifted -way- off the original topic. Unfortunately, I can not find a place to make a split, so I have updated the title of this tread to reflect where the conversation has wandered to.

Please keep this within the realm of:
"What I intend to master.", "What is Proficiency" and "What is Mastery?/ a Master?"

I think the 2 are interrelated, hense the expanded focus of topic.

Thank you.
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin
Okay, okay, forget about the J-kid for a moment. If we base our definitions of mastery and proficiency on the info provided by RyuShiKan then I just want to become competent in my primary art. How about that...:wink:

I think Uehara Seikichi of Motobu Ryu is one of the people I would most like to keep up with.
Uehara is about 99 years old this year and still teaches and trains!
To me that is one side of "mastery".
Also, at his age probably has a stronger grip than most people on this forum.......including myself!

 

[Mike Clarke]

Musashi was full of it eh? [easy for you to say].

You know the problem many people have in the martial arts is that they think training has something to do with being better than someone else[thus being able to win a fight/trophy etc].
No matter how long they train their understanding never changes and so their mind stays the same as a bigginers, ignorant.

To think that one day you will 'master' an art [or a number of them], is to limit yourself to a fixed end of training, You reach the end the day you think you've mastered everything.

[I laugh every time I hear people say;"We took the best techniques from several styles and created are new devistating fighting form."]

If you just want to be a good fighter, why bother learning an 'art' ? just go out and fight, you'll soon get to know if you're any good at it or not?

After almost 30 years of training in karatedo, I can say with all humility that I am a better person than I was as a teenager.
Older [yes] wiser[maybe?] better able to deal with the way I handle problems [absolutely].

My students think I'm quite masterfull when I teach them, but my teachers in Okinawa think I've still got a long way to go to master anything!

Dosen't everyone know it's the journey, not the arrival, that's the important thing in all this?

Mike.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Jay Bell
:rofl:

This whole thread is just comical....thanks for the good hearty laugh

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Kids are encouraged to dream. Please don't tell them they can't. May be he will extract all the better part of each art and create his own system. Who knows? You got to be able to dream in order to create something out of impossibilities.

So the kid has a big mouth and somewhat of an attitude. Which 16 yrs old is not some what that way? Heck, they all learn, eventually. The same way we did!

Go ahead and chase your dream, Judo Kid. God Speed! Best of luck to you! You have a whole life in front of you. If only I could be 16 again......

I remember when I wanted to kill everyone at everything, I would get so pumped up for all my matches