Thanks for all of the comments on fasting guys.

[Gerry Seymour]

We have a high crime areas here as well, if your saying people eat badly because it's too dangerous to go out, that one thing, same if their house bound through I'll health. The 85 year old lady next door gets here shopping trolley and walks to the supermarket and that's a two miles round trip, I can't accept that all the poor American are incapable of a walk and or a bus ride to a super narket, not all of them

It's not an all of anybody thing. It's a matter of how it impacts poorer people. They are more likely to live far from good food. They are more likely to have trouble covering the distance (I live about 3-4 miles from good food, but I can easily get in my car and drive to it and am healthy enough to walk it if needed). They are more likely to live in an area where taking a 2-hour walk (let's say 20 minutes to walk a mile, and slower when carrying bags of groceries) is risky. They are more likely to live in an area where fresh foods are more expensive than crap foods, and least able to afford that difference. (Another factor: they are more likely to work multiple jobs, leaving less time for the travel to those stores.) Put all that together in varying amounts, and it becomes a social issue, rather than a matter of lifestyle choice.

 

[pdg]

The tax is aimed at getting children off what we call fizzy drinks, children who drink a lot of these don't tend to drink fruit juices/tea/milk etc

It's not restricted to just fizzy (carbonated) drinks.

It affects squash and cordials too (and "pure" fruit juice made from concentrate).

So, they legislated to stop or reduce the manufacturers adding sugar - instead they add sucralose and/or aspartame, which while may not contribute as much to obesity are processed chemical sweeteners which leave a nasty aftertaste.

I'd prefer the sugar thanks.

The real problem with UK childhood (and adult actually) obesity isn't sugar, or ready meals (which are getting hammered too with reduced portion sizes and stuff) but levels of activity and over reliance on said products.

When I was a kid I'd regularly get a can of coke and a chocolate bar (bigger than the modern versions I might add) which is what, 4 times the child RDA for sugar? I didn't get fat or have dental issues, nor did any of my friends, because instead of sitting in front of a screen all the time we were out, making treehouses, riding bikes, playing tag...

Sometime (hopefully soon) it'll be realised that you can't legislate against food when the problem lies with idleness.

 

[pdg]

It's not an all of anybody thing. It's a matter of how it impacts poorer people. They are more likely to live far from good food. They are more likely to have trouble covering the distance (I live about 3-4 miles from good food, but I can easily get in my car and drive to it and am healthy enough to walk it if needed). They are more likely to live in an area where taking a 2-hour walk (let's say 20 minutes to walk a mile, and slower when carrying bags of groceries) is risky. They are more likely to live in an area where fresh foods are more expensive than crap foods, and least able to afford that difference. (Another factor: they are more likely to work multiple jobs, leaving less time for the travel to those stores.) Put all that together in varying amounts, and it becomes a social issue, rather than a matter of lifestyle choice.

Is the lack of availability really the cause though?

It was said earlier that shops selling fresh produce in these areas aren't profitable, so they don't open - why aren't they profitable? Is it possibly because the local population don't actually want that sort of thing?

There was a TV program a little while ago where a celeb chef wanted to sort out school meals, introducing healthier meals properly cooked instead of heavily processed deep fried or microwave slop.

The kids complained, the parents complained - the parents even went to the lengths of passing McDonald's meals over the school fence to their kids because "they can't be expected to make it through the day eating that green rubbish".

So, said chef visited a few parents - showed them how to cook at home instead of relying on microwave meals and takeaways.

The parents complained about the cost (even when it was within a couple of percent of their existing budget) while stood in front of their 50" TV holding an iPhone whose monthly contract cost could feed a family of 3 for a week...



To put it into perspective - I have a shop and a chinese takeaway within a mile, the shop sells mainly frozen meals, not a huge amount of fresh stuff. The closest place to get "good food" is about 8 miles away.

We manage, and we're hardly wealthy.

 

[jobo]

It's not an all of anybody thing. It's a matter of how it impacts poorer people. They are more likely to live far from good food. They are more likely to have trouble covering the distance (I live about 3-4 miles from good food, but I can easily get in my car and drive to it and am healthy enough to walk it if needed). They are more likely to live in an area where taking a 2-hour walk (let's say 20 minutes to walk a mile, and slower when carrying bags of groceries) is risky. They are more likely to live in an area where fresh foods are more expensive than crap foods, and least able to afford that difference. (Another factor: they are more likely to work multiple jobs, leaving less time for the travel to those stores.) Put all that together in varying amounts, and it becomes a social issue, rather than a matter of lifestyle choice.

Well if they can travel to and do multiple jobs then can go shopping, they do have public transport in america, I've been on it.

It's just excuses, for every one incapable i mean really incapable of finding fresh food in the land of plenty, threRes many more who just don't and do what's easiest,

If there was a demand for fresh food the shops there are would sell it, that's just the American way

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is the lack of availability really the cause though?

It was said earlier that shops selling fresh produce in these areas aren't profitable, so they don't open - why aren't they profitable? Is it possibly because the local population don't actually want that sort of thing?

There was a TV program a little while ago where a celeb chef wanted to sort out school meals, introducing healthier meals properly cooked instead of heavily processed deep fried or microwave slop.

The kids complained, the parents complained - the parents even went to the lengths of passing McDonald's meals over the school fence to their kids because "they can't be expected to make it through the day eating that green rubbish".

So, said chef visited a few parents - showed them how to cook at home instead of relying on microwave meals and takeaways.

The parents complained about the cost (even when it was within a couple of percent of their existing budget) while stood in front of their 50" TV holding an iPhone whose monthly contract cost could feed a family of 3 for a week...



To put it into perspective - I have a shop and a chinese takeaway within a mile, the shop sells mainly frozen meals, not a huge amount of fresh stuff. The closest place to get "good food" is about 8 miles away.

We manage, and we're hardly wealthy.

There is a chicken-and-egg problem, of course. Poor people don't have much money, so won't spend much, and if the area is undesirable folks won't wander in to shop there. That makes running a food store (any food store) less profitable. That also make stable goods a better bet in inventory (so no fresh produce).

It's unlikely poor people are any more averse to good nutrition than the general populace. They probably ARE more accustomed to less nutritious food (what they grew up with, based on the same issues), so are more likely to continue to eat it and pass that on to their kids.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well if they can travel to and do multiple jobs then can go shopping, they do have public transport in america, I've been on it.

It is far from ubiquitous. It exists some places, but sometimes you need a mile or two walk just to get to it. And other places it doesn't exist, at all. In more rural areas, it's likely to be entirely non-existent.

It's just excuses, for every one incapable i mean really incapable of finding fresh food in the land of plenty, threRes many more who just don't and do what's easiest,

If there was a demand for fresh food the shops there are would sell it, that's just the American way

Yeah, you're just making excuses, yourself. You don't WANT to understand, so you make excuses. I get it.

 

[mrt2]

This thread has been circling the bowl for awhile. None of this has anything to do with MA, and the OP seems to have left the building.

 

[jobo]

It is far from ubiquitous. It exists some places, but sometimes you need a mile or two walk just to get to it. And other places it doesn't exist, at all. In more rural areas, it's likely to be entirely non-existent.



Yeah, you're just making excuses, yourself. You don't WANT to understand, so you make excuses. I get it.

So you saying that in farming area you can't buy farm food, you could probably steal it though or collect wild stuff

 

[mrt2]

So you saying that in farming area you can't buy farm food, you could probably steal it though or collect wild stuff

You are either completely clueless or just trolling at this point. Or maybe a little of both.

 

[jobo]

It i



Yeah, you're just making excuses, yourself. You don't WANT to understand, so you make excuses. I get it.

I understand it perfectly, it's more difficult so they don't do it, there's lot like that here as well, there's kids that have never seen a vegtable, I met a youth who didn't know what a sprout was called,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So you saying that in farming area you can't buy farm food, you could probably steal it though or collect wild stuff

Not all rural areas are farm areas. Not the same, at all. I live in a rural area. Not a farm in sight, not for many miles around.

 

[jobo]

You are either completely clueless or just trolling at this point. Or maybe a little of both.

He said you couldn't get fresh food in rural area, rural areas are generally where they grow fresh food, and have farm shops selling fresh food, I know this as I've seen them

 

[mrt2]

Not all rural areas are farm areas. Not the same, at all. I live in a rural area. Not a farm in sight, not for many miles around.

Not to mention most farms these days are giant agribusinesses. So no, you can't just go wandering into a field and pick some grain, or steal a chicken.

 

[jobo]

Not all rural areas are farm areas. Not the same, at all. I live in a rural area. Not a farm in sight, not for many miles around.

So by what definition of rural are we going ? If you mean open countryside with wild things growing then that answers the problem, I bet they could catch rabies as well

 

[Gerry Seymour]

He said you couldn't get fresh food in rural area, rural areas are generally where they grow fresh food, and have farm shops selling fresh food, I know this as I've seen them

Nope. I said there are rural areas where you can't. There are some without fresh food available within 10 miles. Yep, that's a 10-mile radius. Where I grew up (also rural), you couldn't walk a mile without passing a farm, and probably a farm stand. Other places, that's not at all the case. You saw some, that doesn't mean they are everywhere. I've seen bears - any of those in your neighborhood?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So by what definition of rural are we going ? If you mean open countryside with wild things growing then that answers the problem, I bet they could catch rabies as well

So, your solution is that they should be skilled hunter-gatherers? I see what you mean - that's certainly no more time consuming than my trip to the grocery store, and requires no special skills or knowledge, at all. Bunch of lazy bastards, they are.

 

[jobo]

Nope. I said there are rural areas where you can't. There are some without fresh food available within 10 miles. Yep, that's a 10-mile radius. Where I grew up (also rural), you couldn't walk a mile without passing a farm, and probably a farm stand. Other places, that's not at all the case. You saw some, that doesn't mean they are everywhere. I've seen bears - any of those in your neighborhood?

No but I met a bear in California, there were loads of them and I sign saying don't feed the bears,

At the moment, you have people who live in cities that can't catch a bus to get food and people who live in the country surrounded by food that for reasons not adequately explained can't find any and this is apparently a wide spread problem that causes them to have to eat processed food

 

[jobo]

So, your solution is that they should be skilled hunter-gatherers? I see what you mean - that's certainly no more time consuming than my trip to the grocery store, and requires no special skills or knowledge, at all. Bunch of lazy bastards, they are.

Skilled ? Find some Nettles and pick them shoulDnt d take to big a chunk out of their day

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

People are are making claims, but no follow up, is it impossible to buy veg, if your a poor amercan, even if it involves a bit of a walk, I have to walk tWo miles to buy mine, That doesn't make where I live a good desert,just h Not t conveniently located

I'm stating specifically a bodega. In the bodegas in my neighborhood, you're not going to find fruits/vegetables. The most you'll get is rice, and hope theirs other nutritional stuff In the rice (or choose the bodega based on that). I'm not saying anything regarding supermarkets or food deserts, specifically bodegas

 

[jobo]

I'm stating specifically a bodega. In the bodegas in my neighborhood, you're not going to find fruits/vegetables. The most you'll get is rice, and hope theirs other nutritional stuff In the rice (or choose the bodega based on that). I'm not saying anything regarding supermarkets or food deserts, specifically bodegas

I've no idea what a bodegas is, can't they sell you a tin of fruit, even the petrol station here sell toned fruit