Thanks for all of the comments on fasting guys.

[jobo]

Cheap beef is cheaper than good beef, and generally much fattier. Start from that. Not all fresh food is the same. You WANT it all to be about bad choices. You can’t just ignore fact to make that true. I mean, you will, but it still won’t be true.

But fat is An important dietary requirement, as above I can by 6kg of nice lean chicken breasts for 10 quid, that's nearly 15pound of whole some protein packed meat.

The debate is that fresh food is cheaper than processed food, not that some fresh food is better than other fresh food, you can buy poor cuts of beef and,stew it ,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But fat is An important dietary requirement, as above I can by 6kg of nice lean chicken breasts for 10 quid, that's nearly 15pound of whole some protein packed meat.

The debate is that fresh food is cheaper than processed food, not that some fresh food is better than other fresh food, you can buy poor cuts of beef and,stew it ,

You need fat. You need less than a lot. But you know that - you pretend not to, pretend I was saying any fat is bad, because otherwise you’d have to make some sort of sense. And that’s the thing you just won’t do when you are wrong.

 

[jobo]

Even buying decent dog food, that’s not the case here. A 30-lb bag of decent dog food is about $1 a lb. and feeds longer than $30 of chicken and rice.

My dog won't eat dry dog food and nether would you if you've been fed on fresh roast chicken, a Large tin of branded f dog food cost 2quid, I can feed him for Less than 50p on chicken and rice

 

[jobo]

You need fat. You need less than a lot. But you know that - you pretend not to, pretend I was saying any fat is bad, because otherwise you’d have to make some sort of sense. And that’s the thing you just won’t do when you are wrong.

You tell me off for making unjustifiable statement, A quarter to a third of your calories intake should come ro m fat, that's ether a lot oR not much dependent on the measure your using, what measure are you using ?

 

[Tez3]

for 10 quid,

Ten pound! that's a bloody fortune for many. It may be a lot of chicken but many cannot afford to pay that. Ridiculous, just like ignoring me for living in Yorkshire.
The real reason rich people make healthier choices than poor people?

 

[pdg]

Bollocks, typical Tory talk.

Tax credits have been cut, most poor people aren't on benefits and no one gives you a free car. Stop believing the Daily Mail and Piers Morgan and Niggle Farage, it's just plain lies.

Well, it is bollocks, yet at the same time it's not...

It's certainly not a black and white situation, I'll give it that much.

Here's some actual facts from my personal experience, no reference to political inclinations or media induced prejudices:

When we moved back from France we stayed with parents, and went to the council to see about getting housing - we walked in, said we'd like to go on the list and were told it was currently looking like maybe an 8 year wait...

Then, the lady asked where we were moving from - we truthfully answered "France".

"Oh, would you like an interpreter?(!)"

Under a week later we were in temporary accommodation (comprising of a 2 bed semi) and less than 6 months later had a "permanent" house.

Did I complain about how it's so unfair that we were only treated differently because the computer said "immigrant" based on our last location? Did I heck as like, I'm not (quite) that stupid



So, at that time I also found myself jobless... If it were just me I would've muddled by and carried on staying with parents, but wife and small child meant going to sign on.

A short time into that I had to do a "better off in work" assessment interview, where they tried to convince me I'd be in a better financial position in work over being on benefits.

The result came back (based on an advertised job 40 miles away for £9/hr, which at the time was well over minimum wage) and it said I'd be over £200 per month WORSE off in work. And that figure didn't take into account any travel expenses for that 80 miles per day.

So, it's true that the poorest people aren't on benefits, they're working...



As for the free car - well that does happen. Sometimes free, sometimes heavily subsidised. It's called the motability scheme.

It's really designed for helping the disabled, but getting fat enough to have difficulty walking does count, especially if you have further related health complications.

One of my customers is in that exact position, got exceedingly fat, got a free car.

In fairness to her, her fatness isn't the result of being lazy or stupid - it's a side effect of the steroids and other medication she takes following a severe illness. She hates it, but genuinely can't do anything to combat it except die...



The big problem is that so many abuse these systems, and these are the ones that make the media, reinforcing the stereotypes...

Like a previous neighbour of ours, every benifits/chav/scum stereotype fitted her like a glove...

 

[Tez3]

One of my customers is in that exact position, got exceedingly fat, got a free car.

In fairness to her, her fatness isn't the result of being lazy or stupid - it's a side effect of the steroids and other medication she takes following a severe illness. She hates it, but genuinely can't do anything to combat it except die..

She didn't get fat deliberately just to get a car though which jobo insinuated.

The big problem is that so many abuse these systems, and these are the ones that make the media, reinforcing the stereotypes...

Not nearly as many as people think, another misconception.
How many benefit cheats are there? Here’s the real fraud | Katharine Sacks-Jones
"Nevertheless, previous research shows that the public perception of fraud is 34 times higher than the reality. It’s an emotive subject. Nobody likes to think of their taxes going to fraudsters. It outrages our sense of fair play and our deep sense of who deserves what and why."

If you've moved from France you aren't 'an immigrant' as such though you were an expat, we hold reciprocal agreements with other EU countries to allow benefits, housing etc. to be given to EU citizens. Notably more Brits are on benefits in Europe than EU citizens on benefits here.

 

[pdg]

Not nearly as many as people think, another misconception.

It's not a misconception on my part.

There are "less than people think", but as I alluded to, people think there are more because the cheats are the ones who make the news and get featured on TV.

The ones you never hear about (the majority) are the ones who have genuine reasons and just get on with it.

Like immigrants - the very vast majority are just normal people making a life - but those aren't newsworthy so get ignored, but tarred with the same "evil immigrant" brush.

If you've moved from France you aren't 'an immigrant' as such though you were an expat, we hold reciprocal agreements with other EU countries to allow benefits, housing etc. to be given to EU citizens. Notably more Brits are on benefits in Europe than EU citizens on benefits here

Computer said immigrant...

The council person made it quite clear that had we not left the UK for a period and then come back, our chances of housing within a sensible time frame were essentially nil.

 

[jobo]

Well, it is bollocks, yet at the same time it's not...

It's certainly not a black and white situation, I'll give it that much.

Here's some actual facts from my personal experience, no reference to political inclinations or media induced prejudices:

When we moved back from France we stayed with parents, and went to the council to see about getting housing - we walked in, said we'd like to go on the list and were told it was currently looking like maybe an 8 year wait...

Then, the lady asked where we were moving from - we truthfully answered "France".

"Oh, would you like an interpreter?(!)"

Under a week later we were in temporary accommodation (comprising of a 2 bed semi) and less than 6 months later had a "permanent" house.

Did I complain about how it's so unfair that we were only treated differently because the computer said "immigrant" based on our last location? Did I heck as like, I'm not (quite) that stupid



So, at that time I also found myself jobless... If it were just me I would've muddled by and carried on staying with parents, but wife and small child meant going to sign on.

A short time into that I had to do a "better off in work" assessment interview, where they tried to convince me I'd be in a better financial position in work over being on benefits.

The result came back (based on an advertised job 40 miles away for £9/hr, which at the time was well over minimum wage) and it said I'd be over £200 per month WORSE off in work. And that figure didn't take into account any travel expenses for that 80 miles per day.

So, it's true that the poorest people aren't on benefits, they're working...



As for the free car - well that does happen. Sometimes free, sometimes heavily subsidised. It's called the motability scheme.

It's really designed for helping the disabled, but getting fat enough to have difficulty walking does count, especially if you have further related health complications.

One of my customers is in that exact position, got exceedingly fat, got a free car.

In fairness to her, her fatness isn't the result of being lazy or stupid - it's a side effect of the steroids and other medication she takes following a severe illness. She hates it, but genuinely can't do anything to combat it except die...



The big problem is that so many abuse these systems, and these are the ones that make the media, reinforcing the stereotypes...

Like a previous neighbour of ours, every benifits/chav/scum stereotype fitted her like a glove...

Yes that's a pretty fair appraisal, my fat friend, was trying to get a gastric band on the nhs, but at 35 BMI,she wasn't fat enough, so she goes a way for three months And eats like horse, well a horse that lives on ChrisPs and biscuits and Indian take aways, till She is so fat she can't move, gets the operation AND as a bonus, gets disability and a free( heavily subsidised) car. couldNt make it up and she a university lecturer, so hardly poor and uneducated

 

[pdg]

She didn't get fat deliberately just to get a car though which jobo insinuated.

No, she didn't - and I genuinely feel sympathy for her.

While I don't know of anybody who fits that particular criteria (get fat to get a car) there are certainly lots of people who do things to fit through loopholes.

For example, the 18 year old girl on the work programme (part of JSA terms) who had a fixed plan - get pregnant, get a flat, get benefits. That was her career map.

 

[Tez3]

because the cheats are the ones who make the news and get featured on TV.

That's because they've been caught and under the Proceeds of Crime Act, the money is recovered.

For example, the 18 year old girl on the work programme (part of JSA terms) who had a fixed plan - get pregnant, get a flat, get benefits. That was her career map.

She and others may think that's cheating but the only person who has been cheated is herself, it's very sad.

While I don't know of anybody who fits that particular criteria (get fat to get a car) there are certainly lots of people who do things to fit through loopholes.

Not sure you're the one who should be pointing that out! On the other hand how many wealthy people are jumping through rings so they don't have to pay income tax?

 

[Dirty Dog]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

This thread is starting to turn political. If this continues, the thread will be locked. Take political debates to THIS forum instead. They don't belong here.

 

[pdg]

She and others may think that's cheating but the only person who has been cheated is herself, it's very sad.

I agree, but she saw it as preferential to getting a job.

When asked what she'd do when she wanted to go out for the night - "oh, I can just leave it with my mum"...

Not sure you're the one who should be pointing that out! On the other hand how many wealthy people are jumping through rings so they don't have to pay income tax?

Ah, but I didn't leave the country for that reason. We had no intention of moving back, but the situation demanded otherwise.

I might not fully agree with how the system is set up, but to reject it on moral grounds would've been shooting myself (and my wife and child) in the foot - the ends justify the means to a certain extent. Can anybody really say they've never done something they didn't like in order to achieve a better outcome?


As for the tax thing, not as many as the news make out... A few high profile cases, a few more that go along with morally dubious (but perfectly legal) methods to reduce their bill.

To be honest, looking at the tax rates and the reasons they were introduced, I'd be up for a legal avoidance (not evasion) scheme if I was in that situation too.

 

[pdg]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

This thread is starting to turn political. If this continues, the thread will be locked. Take political debates to THIS forum instead. They don't belong here.

I have no problem with being told to cease and desist with regard to a line of discussion, but...

Pointless link is pointless.

The UK (which is the focus of debate) is a sub sub section of that forum, down the page, under "global", further under "Europe" (and being under Europe is a whole political argument in itself).

Basically, it appears to be opinionated Americans moaning about Brits and offends my delicate nationalistic sensibilities.

 

[Tez3]

Actually it's not a political argument, it's a general discussion on how people become too poor to eat properly we are having as it doesn't involve politics but rather about those who no fault of their own are left impoverished. There's actually no politics in what we were discussing nor was there likely to be,we are English after all.

You have to remember political discussion in the UK is a very different animal from those in the USA.

 

[Tez3]

Basically, it appears to be opinionated Americans moaning about Brits and offends my delicate nationalistic sensibilities.

You should have seen the comments that used to be on MT before 'politics' was banned.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thread locked pending staff review.