Terry Shiavo and the Sanctity of Life...

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Work in a hospice for a spell, then come back and talk about the sanctity of life, and the necessity to keep people alive just because we can. For many, the onset of death is a gift long-overdue.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Tgace]

Im sure. I just take issue with painting the parents as "selfish" and implying that they are somehow other than "justified" in their persuit of the case. I wont judge them or their motives. They were doing what they thought was right and are working within the legal system. "We" arent doing anything but casting our view on the subject on people in pain.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I haven't reviewed enough of the thread to see if negative altercasting has been leveled at the parents. I would not choose that approach; everyone is just where they are. Who am I to judge. I suspect if I had the same motivations and information as they, I might also be tempted to take their route. But I do not.

No right. No wrong. Just difference.

 

[michaeledward]

I find the whole affair quite ironic.

Wasn't it the Republican Party that railed against 'frivolous lawsuits'? Yet, who pushed for, passed, and signed a law opening the jurisdiction to the federal courts?

Wasn't it the Republican Party that decried the decline of western civilization because marriage has always been between one man and one woman? Now who is dis-honoring the 'sancity of marriage' by refusing to honor the wishes of a wife, as told to her husband?

Again, this is bread and circuses. While this show is taking up so much time, on radio, television and newspapers, real events that are changing our world are taking place. Perhaps it is best if we are distracted by this silly little affair.

Just as long as President Bush can fly back to Washington (because Pens don't seem to work in Crawford Texas) to throw a bone to the Christian Right... see, he really is one of them ... isn't it good they voted against all those gay marriage laws.

Bread and Circuses

 

[Brother John]

Im sure. I just take issue with painting the parents as "selfish" and implying that they are somehow other than "justified" in their persuit of the case. I wont judge them or their motives. They were doing what they thought was right and are working within the legal system. "We" arent doing anything but casting our view on the subject on people in pain.

true. I don't think that the parents were selfish or out of line in any way. I can't imagine being in their imposible possition. I can't say I wouldn't have tried to do the same thing. Those of us looking in from the outside can say what we want, but our perspective is Entirely different... I mean....that's their baby-girl. God help'm.... this has got to be the toughest way to say goodbye, but say it they must.
That's kinda the way 'death' is I guess, only for most of us it's not a 15 year process and most don't have to do it under such a heavy public eye.

Your Brother
John

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Still, I can't help but wonder...with an aging baby-boomer population nearing ages where they start slipping off the perch, how many are looking at Teri and saying, "Is that my fate? Do I want government telling me I can or cannot slip away with some dignitiy nitact? Will I be kept alive beyond the reaches of my vitality?"

That's one of the big parts that bug me about this 3-branches duel, driven by interests. Events are unfolding that may challenge the relative authority of the checks and balances, and the resultant changes, if any, may influence our future rights to self-determination.

D.

 

[kenpo tiger]

"A git long overdue"

Nicely put -- and what parent would deny their child the best for them?

As to dragging this through the courts, very much in the public eye, I wonder whether it was done as a last resort by the parents, desperate for attention to their daughter's plight, or for another reason.

Don't know about you all, but I wouldn't want to be *drug* past the world as an *example* of the power of a vocally aggressive group...

Indeed -- what about respect and dignity?

Robert, I believe it's up to twenty-seven as of now.

 

[rmcrobertson]

At this point, about the only interesting question is this: considering that all the medical guidelines were followed, the law was followed, and the case was reviewed and reviewed and reviewed by any number of independent doctors and judges, why in the world is it that anybody thinks they have the right to butt in?

I say again: a bunch of the comments on this thread have boiled down to, "I just want independent doctors to check," or, "I just want the whole thing to be looked at by the courts." OK--all that's been done. Again and again. Over and over. For fifteen years. It's been done. Check the timeline posted a few pages above. And now, the whole thing's been to the Supreme Court what--five times? Even the Florida legislature's dropped the whole thing. Twice.

And of course, in a magnificent display of backbone of the sort we've all grown accustomed to, Hizzoner and Congress and Tom deLay have all now said that it's out of their hands. I feel confident that this in NO WAY had anything to do with the polls.

So--since all the safeguards and guidelines were observed, since there's a total lack of any EVIDENCE whatsoever to ground believing that this was anything other than a sad case of a husband trying to do the best he could for his wife, WHY EXACTLY IS IT that anybody thinks they have the right to pass all the judgments, to butt in?

Really. Why?

Myself, I think it's got something to do with medical paranoia and thanatophobia, coupled with the fact that most of the people doing the yelling have never been around such patients. You know--it's like folks who like hamburger, but think meat comes from the store.

 

[michaeledward]

On the bright side ... Bush's approval rating has never been lower.

Ms. Shiavo is doing something good for the country.

 

[Melissa426]

And of course, in a magnificent display of backbone of the sort we've all grown accustomed to, Hizzoner and Congress and Tom deLay have all now said that it's out of their hands. I feel confident that this in NO WAY had anything to do with the polls.

You are being sarcastic, where I highlighted, yes?

It also befuddles me why so many people are so certain there will be this huge rash of maltreatment towards disabled people. There were two disabled women on Larry King last night who implied this will lead to an epidemic of tube and plug pulling on people who have had brain damage. That's ridiculous, IMO.
This should be a families' private decision, on a case by case, made with respect to the individual's wishes.
And yes, I have worked in long term care facilities, with patients who are in a similiar situation as Mrs. Schiavo, when patients were kept alive by feeding tubes for years and years because the family believed that is what the patient would want.

Peace for Terri.

Melissa

 

[Ceicei]

On the bright side ...
Ms. Shiavo is doing something good for the country.

Indeed. More people are discussing what to do for their family members should terminal illness and/or very debilitating injury strike. They are now making their Estate Wills, Living Wills, and Advance Directives. That's a good thing....

- Ceicei

 

[OUMoose]

Not sure if this has already been posted or not, and if it has, my apologies. It draws an interesting analogy though, IMO.

The Schiavo Case and the Islamization of the Republican Party

 

[kenpo tiger]

That is entirely too scary to even contemplate. If you take it a step further, then jihad can be declared on those who disagree with anything the legislators choose because they can be perceived to be "infidels".

What a world we live in.

 

[Ceicei]

This is an interesting commentary on "Why Schiavo's Parents Didn't Have a Case":

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-cohen25mar25,0,5784761.story

- Ceicei

 

[Tgace]

true. I don't think that the parents were selfish or out of line in any way. I can't imagine being in their imposible possition. I can't say I wouldn't have tried to do the same thing. Those of us looking in from the outside can say what we want, but our perspective is Entirely different... I mean....that's their baby-girl. God help'm.... this has got to be the toughest way to say goodbye, but say it they must.
That's kinda the way 'death' is I guess, only for most of us it's not a 15 year process and most don't have to do it under such a heavy public eye.

Your Brother
John

Exactly..and most of us dont have to sit by her for 1-2 weeks and watch it happen slowly.
:asian:

 

[Melissa426]

Threats from Randall Terry, anti-abortionist crusader and founder of Operation Rescue.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/25/schneider/index.html

Does this not make it seem that the Schindlers, who are undoubtedly loving parents who care about their daughter, are nonetheless being used as political pawns?

Peace,
Melissa

 

[rmcrobertson]

Listen up, Sparky: I HAVE. And so have a number of other people on this thread. And ya know what? This is ********. This is politically-driven, ideologically charged ********, enforced by a group of self-appointed moral watchmen (and it is men, you know, behind it all...just one more episode of Let's All Praise Men's Control Of Women's Bodies, and yes, I am aware of the fact that this damns all, "sides" here) who don't want anything to do with actually wiping asses and trying to unkink twisted limbs.

Lemme tell ya about a child I met when I worked at a Children's Hospital--let's just say in the Midwest, around, oh, 1980. We'll call him....Butch.

Well, Butch was born to an underage, junkie mom, about, oh, three months pre-term, about three months before I started checking ventilators in the NICU (newborn intensive care unit...a level IV nursery for the several-state area; they flew kids in) RDS (respiratory distress syndrome...no surfactant in the alveoli); several Grade III-IV brain bleeds (scale starts at I, goes to IV), soon had RLF (retro-lental fibroplasia....retinas die since over-oxygenated, but if you don't oxygenate...), repeated horrible convulsions...I seem to recall resuscitating this "kid," twice a shift.

Hey, we saved him. Oh good. Ed Meese's new guidelines had kicked in (ironic what happened to his boss...no, better not go there, and that year we had at leat two anencephalic newborns (born without real brains, kids) kept on BabyBirds because the Feds insisted.

After the first year, the parents stopped coming to visit their blind, deaf, profoundly brain-damaged, convulsing, tracheotomized, parenterally-fed offspring--got divorced, their "family" collapsed. They were poor, and couldn't deal. They stuck him in a side room of the NICU...we kept treating him, the whole year I was there. For me, that meant IPPB q2, postural draininge, suction.

Which is where he remained. Eventually, he got off the ventilator...I started college, came back to work next summer...he was on CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) and permanenently tracheotomized--and endless meds---blind, deaf, dumb, no purposeful movement to speak of, no social interaction except what he got from people like me and the great nurses who'd try and cuddle him when they weren't too busy. No walking, no play, no nothing.

I came back the next summer to work a couple shifts--needed the money. "Hey, what happened to...." Well, kids, he died. Thank God, and us agnostics don't say that lightly.

So tell us, O self-appointed Guardians of America's Morality--that sound good to you? That sound like anything Jesus had in mind? How 'bout Jefferson--he'd have said, well, now, here's the sort of thing that makes me proud?

Hey, go volunteer for a year. Hospitals, rehab centers, hospices always need people. Then get back to us.

 

[Tgace]

Who the heck are you talking to??

 

[rmcrobertson]

"most of us dont have to sit by her for 1-2 weeks and watch it happen slowly."

Been there, done that, skipped the t-shirt. Have you?

 

[Tgace]

Where have I said I believe she should be kept alive? I just think we treat dogs better when we "put them down". Maybe when mine takes sick ill just stop feeding him....

What makes you think Im even religious?