Taijiquan is no good in a fight

[Xue Sheng]

Well, I got you to look

Admittedly there are a lot of folks teaching taijiquan, and learning taijiquan, and they only know it as a moving meditatoin. And there are those showing ridiculous applications of postures and some so overly complicated to actually apply you'd never get anything but hurt. Don't believe me, search YouTube for taijiquan applications.....However it was, and if you find the right teacherm it is stiull a martial art..... but to the title of the thread...taijiquan is no good in a fight....I guess someone will need to tell my Yang Shifu, as well as many Chen folks, Dr Yang and many of his long time Taijiquan students at YMAA. There are more, but also, admiuttedly, there are more that have no clue, than those that know what it really is, which is a combitation os Kicking and punching, Shuaijiao, and qinna

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh and Eddie Wu too, there use to be a great video out there of Eddie Wu doing an application od Wu style repulse monkey at full speed, which also showed why Wu style had break falls as part of their curriculum, but I cannot find it

 

[windwalker099]

there are more that have no clue, than those that know what it really is, which is a combitation os Kicking and punching, Shuaijiao, and qinna

Interest in outlook is this the main distinction you feel embodies taiji ?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Can you clarify this, want to make sure I understand the point you'er attempting to make..

I think he's trying to say that Tai Chi actually is good in a fight, for those who know how it was originally intended to work. I.e., Tai Chi contains punches, kicks, throws, and joint locks - you just have to know how to apply them properly. (Which many Tai Chi practitioners don't, unfortunately.)

 

[windwalker099]

I think he's trying to say that Tai Chi actually is good in a fight, for those who know how it was originally intended to work. I.e., Tai Chi contains punches, kicks, throws, and joint locks - you just have to know how to apply them properly. (Which many Tai Chi practitioners don't, unfortunately.)

IME with those who feel that tai chi is application based,
what they do is not much different from any other MA why label it "taiji".

Just found it an interesting perspective...wanted to make sure I was reading it right.
Thanks for the clarification...

note: Edited the OP before reading, your reply...

 

[Tony Dismukes]

IME with those who feel that tai chi is application based, what they do is not much different from any other MA why label it "taiji".

I suppose the key would be whether one is using the underlying concepts, principles, and body mechanics that are characteristic of Tai Chi while executing those applications.

I won't speak for Xue, but from past discussions he seems to have very particular ideas about what those concepts, principles, and body mechanics are. I know that for some of the practitioners I've seen that I liked, he did not feel that they were following original Tai Chi principles.

 

[windwalker099]

Tai Chi contains punches, kicks, throws, and joint locks - you just have to know how to apply them properly. (Which many Tai Chi practitioners don't, unfortunately.)

One can always serve as an example—whether of Taiji or something else—depending on how they move and act.

The distinction between what is Taiji and what is not hinges on perception, skill, and understanding. To some, the differences may seem subtle; to others, they are unmistakable... if one has the skill to discern them.

Taiji presents a fascinating paradox: it is possible to "win" an encounter yet still "lose" in the eyes of observers—especially if the methods used to prevail are not truly Taiji.

I witnessed this in China among my teacher's group. They would remark on visiting practitioners wanting to interact with some of our classmates, praising their strength, speed, and technical skill—yet those familiar with Taiji's essence understood the unspoken critique: "They do not truly grasp how to use Taiji."

In Taiwan, I found the same principle held true.

 

[Holmejr]

Virtually all MA are good in a fight if the training is combat oriented. Tennis would be good in a fight if the player trained specifically to hit assailants with their racket. I love the movements of Tai Chi.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Virtually all MA are good in a fight if the training is combat oriented. Tennis would be good in a fight if the player trained specifically to hit assailants with their racket. I love the movements of Tai Chi.

 

[Holmejr]

Great movie btw!

 

[Flying Crane]

I’ve never met Taijiquan. I’ve certainly never fought him. Maybe he can fight, maybe he can’t. Does he post here? What does he look like?

 

[Buka]

I’ve never met Taijiquan. I’ve certainly never fought him. Maybe he can fight, maybe he can’t. Does he post here? What does he look like?

Short little tall guy, divides by zero a lot, really shiny shoes? He drops by the forum from time to time.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If we didn't see good Taiji fighters in our previous generation, what is the chance that we can see good Taiji fighters in our generation?

民国两次武术实战比赛，南拳败北，太极惨不忍睹_国术

1928年10月6日至18日，第一次国术国考在南京公共体育举行，冯玉祥等国民政府要员出席了开幕式，场内悬由张之江亲题的“强国雪耻基于此举”的横幅，“考试开始，与试者凡二百零一人，男女老幼，兼而有之，所演均颇可…

www.sohu.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
这两次国术国考中，成绩优异者皆为北派拳法习练者 如形意、查拳、少林、劈挂、通背、螳螂等。南拳无一人进入优等（包括现在大行其道的咏春），另外一个现在最火的拳种，战绩也惨不忍睹——太极。

这条估计会让南派拳法的习练者愤怒，但事实如此，当年国考第一轮南拳全部被淘汰，逼不得已主办方临时改了比赛规则，南方拳法和北方拳法分成两个科目进行比赛。这个原因并非是南拳不强，而是南拳比赛传统为先搭手，所谓“搭手才叫功夫”，对于拉开距离对冲的比赛方式极端不适应，南拳的习练者在搭手之后很强，但是他们没有能够逼对方和自己手搭在一起的本事

Here’s the English translation:

In the past two national martial arts exams (1928 and 1933), the top achievers were all practitioners of Northern-style martial arts, such as Xing Yi, Cha Quan, Shaolin, Pi Gua, Tong Bei, Tang Lang (Mantis), and others. Southern-style martial arts had no representatives achieving top scores (including the now widely popular Wing Chun). Another currently trending martial art also performed dismally—Tai Chi.

This will likely anger practitioners of Southern-style martial arts, but it’s a fact. In the first round of the exams back then, all Southern-style martial arts were eliminated. The organizers were forced to temporarily modify the competition rules, separating Southern and Northern martial arts into two categories for competition. The reason isn’t that Southern martial arts lack strength, but rather their traditional competition style starts with close contact, known as "only through contact can it be called martial arts." This makes them extremely unsuited for competition formats where opponents engage from a distance. While Southern-style practitioners are strong after initiating contact, they lack the ability to force opponents to engage at close range.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Short little tall guy, divides by zero a lot, really shiny shoes? He drops by the forum from time to time.

That’s the guy.

 

[isshinryuronin]

In the first round of the exams back then, all Southern-style martial arts were eliminated. The organizers were forced to temporarily modify the competition rules, separating Southern and Northern martial arts into two categories for competition. The reason isn’t that Southern martial arts lack strength, but rather their traditional competition style starts with close contact, known as "only through contact can it be called martial arts." This makes them extremely unsuited for competition formats

Agree. The quality of a TMA system (or individual) in competition only shows its quality in a sport setting and does not indicate its quality in actual combat. One may be good in both or just one or the other - in some cases, neither.

 

[Xue Sheng]

If we didn't see good Taiji fighters in our previous generation, what is the chance that we can see good Taiji fighters in our generation?

民国两次武术实战比赛，南拳败北，太极惨不忍睹_国术

1928年10月6日至18日，第一次国术国考在南京公共体育举行，冯玉祥等国民政府要员出席了开幕式，场内悬由张之江亲题的“强国雪耻基于此举”的横幅，“考试开始，与试者凡二百零一人，男女老幼，兼而有之，所演均颇可…

www.sohu.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
这两次国术国考中，成绩优异者皆为北派拳法习练者 如形意、查拳、少林、劈挂、通背、螳螂等。南拳无一人进入优等（包括现在大行其道的咏春），另外一个现在最火的拳种，战绩也惨不忍睹——太极。

这条估计会让南派拳法的习练者愤怒，但事实如此，当年国考第一轮南拳全部被淘汰，逼不得已主办方临时改了比赛规则，南方拳法和北方拳法分成两个科目进行比赛。这个原因并非是南拳不强，而是南拳比赛传统为先搭手，所谓“搭手才叫功夫”，对于拉开距离对冲的比赛方式极端不适应，南拳的习练者在搭手之后很强，但是他们没有能够逼对方和自己手搭在一起的本事

Here’s the English translation:

In the past two national martial arts exams (1928 and 1933), the top achievers were all practitioners of Northern-style martial arts, such as Xing Yi, Cha Quan, Shaolin, Pi Gua, Tong Bei, Tang Lang (Mantis), and others. Southern-style martial arts had no representatives achieving top scores (including the now widely popular Wing Chun). Another currently trending martial art also performed dismally—Tai Chi.

This will likely anger practitioners of Southern-style martial arts, but it’s a fact. In the first round of the exams back then, all Southern-style martial arts were eliminated. The organizers were forced to temporarily modify the competition rules, separating Southern and Northern martial arts into two categories for competition. The reason isn’t that Southern martial arts lack strength, but rather their traditional competition style starts with close contact, known as "only through contact can it be called martial arts." This makes them extremely unsuited for competition formats where opponents engage from a distance. While Southern-style practitioners are strong after initiating contact, they lack the ability to force opponents to engage at close range.

What styles of Taijiquan? Were there weight classes? Was this register and join or by invitation only?

And a fight in a ring, does not mean you cannot defend yourself outside of it. I don't give a hoot about match results. And that does not mean there are none, were not or will be none...it does however reenforce your dislike for taijiquan and most other arts that are not Shuaijiao.... I am not going to argue with you again...I am of the belief you are prejudice against taijiquan and for that matter wing chun.

Chen Xiaowang was teaching seminars and he was actually wondering if he could defend himself with his families style since he had never been in a fight (apparently he did not count the matches in Chen village as a fight), At one of his seminars, for no reason, one of the students in the seminar attacked him, Chen responded instinctually. He hit the attacker so hard in the chest the man was taken away by ambulance and had a heart arrhythmia .

and while we're at it Tung Hu Ling opened a Taijiquan school in Thailand many years ago, and there were still challenges in Thailand then.... as far as I know the school is still there, of course he doesn't run it any more since he passed away in 1992. But if was there during his life, he never lost a challenge...

 

[Same Trick]

Showing and practicing punching , kicking and throwing applications is not fight, a fight becomes a fight when actual dueling to submission determine a winner and a loser take place .

And that’s not Taiji, anyone into Taiji with such goal is not doing Taiji and should rather call what they’re doing something else if not and they are teachers they’re misleading students that want to study Taiji

“Fighting” meaning “combat” which hold the meaning “struggle”/“contend". While Taiji suggest harmonious interaction, two sides together form the highest outcome for the whole.

So clearly Taiji is not fighting, this should be the first lesson in every Taiji school.

I’m serious on this !

 

[Same Trick]

Virtually all MA are good in a fight if the training is combat oriented. Tennis would be good in a fight if the player trained specifically to hit assailants with their racket. I love the movements of Tai Chi.

I was once hit smack in my left eye by a supersonic(seemed like that) tennis ball, was blinded a whole day on that eye, dangerous power.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Showing and practicing punching , kicking and throwing applications is not fight, a fight becomes a fight when actual dueling to submission determine a winner and a loser take place .

And that’s not Taiji, anyone into Taiji with such goal is not doing Taiji and should rather call what they’re doing something else if not and they are teachers they’re misleading students that want to study Taiji

“Fighting” meaning “combat” which hold the meaning “struggle”/“contend". While Taiji suggest harmonious interaction, two sides together form the highest outcome for the whole.

So clearly Taiji is not fighting, this should be the first lesson in every Taiji school.

I’m serious on this !

So you are saying you can’t dance. Ok.

 

[Same Trick]

So you are saying you can’t dance. Ok.

?? I don’t dance