Ditto ... Lama Pai here. We have our own internal practices & exercises, (noi gung & hei gung). We also have a version of Needle in Cotton. What that woman was doing was exactly not what Tibetan practitioners do.
That was made up BS.
Differnces in the Taijiquan
- Thread starter BillK
- Start date
Ditto ... Lama Pai here. We have our own internal practices & exercises, (noi gung & hei gung). We also have a version of Needle in Cotton. What that woman was doing was exactly not what Tibetan practitioners do.
That was made up BS.
Actually I had my suspicion that the people doing this were as much 'Tibetan White Crane' as they were 'Tai Chi', as in, they are not.
Thanks for that clarification. I always knew Tibetan White Crane as a perfectly legitimate and respected MA style, so I was a little perplexed to find this 'tai chi' form demonstrated.
mograph
Master of Arts
Actually, the more I watch, the more it looks like an improvised gag.
greytowhite
Green Belt
Hmm... I'd say the Chen shi Xiaojia guys have something a little different honestly.
ChinaFromInside.com presents... TAIJIQUAN - Small Frame of Chen Style Taijiquan
ChinaFromInside.com presents... TAIJIQUAN - Small Frame of Chen Style Taijiquan
Goku2
Yellow Belt
My thoughts on current taijiquan practices, for what they're worth: At this time, taiji is becoming popular. As with most popular things, there is marketing to set each style or version distinct from the others. As with marketing, the trick is to appeal to the masses. If the masses do not want to work hard, or understand what they are doing, then so be it. As with most marketing, success is defined by the most money brought in. If you come from China, it stands to reason you must know taiji. Give the people what they want!
For an understanding of the popularity of 'qigong', I'd recommend reading "Qigong Fever" by David A. Palmer. The author writes on the development of the popularity of qigong practices in Mao's China. He is not commenting on its efficacy, but the politics involved. Also consider tourism in China.
The wonderful thing about taiji(quan) is its flexibility. It is so many things to so many people! If you want spirituality, it can be there. If you're just looking for health, it can be there. If you're looking for a martial art, it can be there, and it is in this where finding someone one who truly understands it and is willing to share -herein lies the difficulty!
For an understanding of the popularity of 'qigong', I'd recommend reading "Qigong Fever" by David A. Palmer. The author writes on the development of the popularity of qigong practices in Mao's China. He is not commenting on its efficacy, but the politics involved. Also consider tourism in China.
The wonderful thing about taiji(quan) is its flexibility. It is so many things to so many people! If you want spirituality, it can be there. If you're just looking for health, it can be there. If you're looking for a martial art, it can be there, and it is in this where finding someone one who truly understands it and is willing to share -herein lies the difficulty!
Goku2
Yellow Belt
Not really different, just different intention in the moves. This is where people think are the 'differences' are in Chen styles. If you understand what you are doing, you can see the variations or the possibilities. As my Shifu says: "Act according to the situation!"
I mentioned Zhu family because my teacher is one of Zhu tiancai's sons (and yes, I know they are related to the chen's). I found that they have a consistent 'flavor' within their family which is different from the chen's or the wang's, but of course the differences are not too consequential and we definitely consider ourselves very much part of Mainstream Chen style. In the end, for an art that is so predicated upon self discovery and internalization, it is only natural that each and everyone of us practices taijiquan in a way unique to ourselves.
ChenAn
Green Belt
I like ZTC he is fun delightful guy to study with..However, there is a sad truth about 4 tigers. It not that much about self discovery and internalization, it's about lost transmission and lack of knowledge. Chen Zhaopi was too old to show much sick and demoralized by cultural revolution while Chen Zhaokui brief visits interrupted by a sudden death from stroke in 1981 (yes it's genetic in Chen Fake line, Chen Fake brother died from a stoke as well)
The truth is there are no old frame and new frame (laojia and xinjia respectfully) as it presented today. There are only big (dajia) and small (xiaojia) frame in Chen method. Unfortunately Chen village lost it and had to make up for the lost knowledge on their own. Chen Fake line was able to retain original method. CFK frame was't really new (as it labeled by Chen village today) it shared the same core as the small frame. Contemporary Chen maser don't have that knowledge and marketing it as is. Only Chen Xiowang had some of it when he was young, but he changed it over the years for whatever reasons. What village has today is a sad display of modern sport wrestling - not traditional Chen. Here Chen Xiaoxing brunch
If one wants to learn traditional Chen I would recommend to look search for representatives of the small frame or Feng Ziqiang/Chen Zhaokui line..Although even within those lineages there are people who substitute lack of skills by famous teacher name (standard marketing move).So there is no guarantee but there is chance.
I'm personally happy to settle with Chen Yu line after spending decade with Chen village. I'm not afraid to start over and rebuild from ground zero. I'm my opinion authentic knowledge totally worth it
In Taiji push hand, if you don't punch, it will soon turn into wrestling. There are so many Chinese wrestlers in the northern part of China. If Chen Taiji guys want to test their skill, soon or later they have to face those Chinese wrestlers. If a Chen Taiji guy can handle himself on the mat or in the ring, his Chen Taiji is good , otherwise, his Chen Taiji is bad. Is that "sad"? I don't think so.
Every time I play push hand with Taiji guys, I like to drag their arm and move in circle. Most of the Taiji guys are not used to that strategy. IMO, it's always a good idea to integrate some wrestling strategy into Chen Taiji. From that point of view, Chen Taiji guys are not doing enough.
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ChenAn
Green Belt
I used practiced sambo in my youth it's much better than this! I understand a lot of people may find this video very delightful and martial, but this only due to fact that nobody really knows what original purpose of push hand practice was, and how traditional Chen used in wrestling scenarios.
For the sake of discussion, if you are a Chen Taiji guy (or other Taiji system guy), what will you do when your opponent drags your arm like this in push hand?
Goku2
Yellow Belt
My current teacher studied with Ma Hong and Chen Yu. Ma Hong studied with Chen Zhaokui. I cannot agree with you more, ChenAn, as I too started over.
ChenAn
Green Belt
In my line if someone ascent his hand on the arm is happiest moment. A lot of things can be done..To answer your question let me come from another angle - one thing I wouldn't do is to hold an opponent resisting his pull
Are you talking about "yielding"?
Goku2
Yellow Belt
If my opponent wants me to go in a direction, I oblige.
Both resisting and yielding are all bad solutions. The reason is you are reacting as your opponent wants you to react. IMO, the best solution is to take the control back and attack. The question is how? If you don't train this counter in Taiji PH, you may not react properly when it happens.
There are so many "wrestling strategies" such as "arm dragging" and "circle running" that can be integrated into Taiji PH. I believe Chen Taiji is doing that (which is not a "sad" thing), but in my opinion, they are still not doing enough yet.
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