Tai Chi's Push Hands Law of Primal Unity

[JowGaWolf]

Yes, you are right. Chen Ziming writes that people who learn push hands early will never be able to gain skill in Taijiquan.

Here is a quiz for fun! One, which Taijiquan moves are representative of the following? Two, which Shaolin theory was amalgamated into Taijiquan theory in order to make the transition? Three, do you notice anything interesting about the names, maybe something that seems familiar? Why do you think the names changed?

1. Subdue the Dragon

2. Twisting the strand of Silk

3. Deftly Sewing the Needle

This is where I'm going to have to call BS on this. As someone who knows how to use the strike he's defending against, what I saw in this video is nonsense. This type of application demo is most likely the result of not understanding the strike. That first strike cannot and should not be deployed that way.

OMG that demo is so freaking terrible. When people do demos, like that, I just want to say. "Hey here's a boxer. Show me how you would do that strike." Lots of things wrong with this. This is so bad that I can't even call it a technique because it's based on a strike that would never be used that way and a defense that your opponent will never do.

I believe stuff like this comes from not understanding what the strike is targeting. This strike targets the top of the head. When to use it? When your opponent puts their head chest level and is focused on evading or attacking. If he's thinking of those then he's not thinking to rise up and specifically block my over-hand strike. He's not even going to be in the position to do so.

Second, This strike is faster than what you would and operates outside of the field of vision which is why you use it when your opponent is in a lower position. It strikes from above. Doing the strike at this height is just going to cause your opponent to shoot in under that arm and mess you up.

I have examples of me successfully using it and of my brother figuring out the strike where he closed the gap and stuck his shoulder in my arm pit making that striking hand totally useless.

This is not Sewing the Needle. This is "Get slammed on the ground for using a technique incorrectly" People do all of these demos and never actually try to use the technique. If they would just try to use the technique in sparring they would quickly learn their errors.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I will ask him.

If he remembers, he would tell the story much better than I. He told us during a push hands seminar way back in the early 1990s

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What is most distressing is that there is some legitimacy to these practices and theories, but not without the physical realities of training. This opens the door for fakes, hucksters, and charlatans to take advantage of people without the experience to discern reality from farce.

If one can use his knees to bounce back 2 persons, he should be able to use his knee to bounce back

- a cat (life animal).
- a football (non-life object).
- ...

So far nobody has ever demonstrated his skill by using either a cat, or a football yet. Why?

In 1979, Brendan Lai had a Kung Fu Exhibition in San Francisco. I represented the long fist system on the stage. There was a Qi master 刘木森 Liu Mu Sen who demonstrated using his body to bounce 6 persons flying into all directions. I step on the stage and volunteered to be one of his demo partners. Brendan stopped me from getting on the stage. Later on Brendan told me that all Liu's demo partners were Liu's own students.

 

[windwalker099]

Later on Brendan told me that all Liu's demo partners were Liu's own students.

This proves what ?

In the demo's you video, are they your students ?

So far nobody has ever demonstrated his skill by using either a cat, or a football yet. Why?

Can you name any CMA artists from the full contact matches of the 70s
who looked like what they practiced in the ring ?

Can you name any CMA artists who were successful
in full contact matches during that time period?

If not, why?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This proves what ?

In the demo's you video, are they your students ?


Can you name any CMA artists from the full contact matches of the 70s
who looked like what they practiced in the ring ?

Can you name any CMA artists who were successful
in full contact matches during that time period?

If not, why?

Feeling triggered? How about Sifu Leo Whang?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In the demo's you video, are they your students ?

I let my student to throw me in demo.

Can you find any video that a student pushes/bounces his Taiji teacher away?

 

[windwalker099]

Feeling triggered? How about Sifu Leo Whang?

Are you?

SF my home town, Brenden Lai, among others used to host a lot of tournaments back in the day...

 

[windwalker099]

Can you find any video that a student pushes/bounces his Taiji teacher away?

I could, it would prove what ?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If one can use his knees to bounce back 2 persons, he should be able to use his knee to bounce back

- a cat (life animal).
- a football (non-life object).
- ...

So far nobody has ever demonstrated his skill by using either a cat, or a football yet. Why?

In 1979, Brendan Lai had a Kung Exhibition in San Francisco. I represented the long fist system on the stage. There was a Qi master 刘木森 Liu Mu Sen who demonstrated using his body to bounce 6 persons flying into all directions. I step on the stage and volunteered to be one of his demo partners. Brendan stopped me from getting on the stage. Later on Brendan told me that all Liu's demo partners were Liu's own students.

Ok to be fair, my Sifu would allow 6 of us to surround him and all punch his abdomen/back at the same time. He could repel all 6 in three attempts using three different methods. The first felt like all my force went back up my arm to my neck. The second felt like hitting a giant ball of soft mud. The third felt like trying to hit a spinning wheel. When I asked how he did that, he said, “ That’s why my name is on the sign”.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Are you?

SF my home town, Brenden Lai, among others used to host a lot of tournaments back in the day...

You are too sensitive my friend. We have people in common. I am not your adversary. A good critique isn’t always an indictment. Brendan Lai is a respectable martial artist. I tease rough. I call ******** on things I think are ********. Sometimes I play too rough. Don’t take me too seriously, I’m not worth all that. Don’t take yourself too seriously either.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I could, it would prove what ?

I answer your question with a video. My video proves "if a demo is real, not only a teach can apply to a student. A student can also apply to a teacher too".

Should you answer my question with your video proof too?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The reason I told the story is because if I tell you that it means nothing. If you saw it, it means very little. If you experienced it, it meant everything. That’s why a video of a technique being practiced is still flimsy evidence of martial prowess.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I’m biased. I think videos aren’t very useful for anyone who wasn’t there when it was filmed.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I will say I like this thread. It’s good discussion from multiple converging viewpoints.

 

[windwalker099]

How about Sifu Leo Whang?

Is this the teacher

Eagle claw interesting style

Gini Lau When the Opera was making a tour of the United States in 1973, Gini decided she was ready to strike out on her own and move to the United States. Upon arrival in the United States, Gini did not have a job and could not speak English. She taught herself English and soon began to teach Eagle Claw at various local studios in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Think she was 19 when I first saw her, in a local tournament performing...
wow, she was so good...

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I answer your question with a video. My video proves "if a demo is real, not only a teach can apply to a student. A student can also apply to a teacher too".

Should you answer my question with your video proof too?

I’m not sure on this.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I’m biased. I think videos aren’t very useful for anyone who wasn’t there when it was filmed.

Videos are generally posted by someone trying to make "Their" point.... whether that point is correct or not is always debatable...Basically you're not going to see a Judo is the most awesome art ever video posted that is going to make Judo look bad.....

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Is this the teacher

Eagle claw interesting style

View attachment 32149



Think she was 19 when I first saw her, in a local tournament performing...
wow, she was so good...

That guy is good, she was even better. No, Whang. He is a 1st generation James Wing Woo student. Front row, center right.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Is this the teacher

Eagle claw interesting style

View attachment 32149



Think she was 19 when I first saw her, in a local tournament performing...
wow, she was so good...

That guy is good, she was even better. No, Whang. He is a 1st generation James Wing Woo student. Front row, center right.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Is this the teacher

Eagle claw interesting style

View attachment 32149



Think she was 19 when I first saw her, in a local tournament performing...
wow, she was so good...

Not Ying Jow Pai.