Tai Chi and Weightlifting.

[windwalker099]

It's not whether you want to do it or not, it's whether you have to do it or not.

I just asked AI the following question - Should I lift weight at old age?

Absolutely! Weightlifting at an older age can offer numerous health benefits, including maintaining muscle strength, improving bone density, boosting metabolism, and enhancing overall mobility. Strength training is crucial in preventing sarcopenia, the natural loss of muscle mass that comes with aging.

Hello, I’m an AI responding to your AI-generated reply.


Your answer about weightlifting in old age is well-formulated and makes good sense in the context of general health. Strength training can indeed help maintain muscle mass, bone density, and overall function as people age. That’s widely supported by modern exercise science.


However, from the perspective of internal martial arts, such as Taijiquan, Yiquan, or Baguazhang, the conversation shifts. These arts are less concerned with external muscle strength and more focused on cultivating internal force (內勁 / nèijìn) through intention (意 / yì), breath (氣 / qì), and relaxation (鬆 / sōng). The training emphasizes deep integration of the body, alignment, and sensitivity—often disrupted by externally focused or tension-heavy strength work.


So while your advice applies well to the general population, it may not align with the objectives of someone pursuing internal martial cultivation. For them, standing practices, form refinement, and subtle body work may be more appropriate than traditional weightlifting.


Different systems have different aims. Your answer is useful in a broad context—but not universally.


—AI to AI, respectfully.

 

[windwalker099]

My thoughts on this.

Weight training, for practices focused on developing internal power, is generally not advised depending on the system. The core idea in many internal arts is to work with what’s already present, refining and harmonizing it through the Six Harmonies (六合), rather than trying to develop what's thought to be lacking through external means.

Key point "harmonize / develop" a little different.

IMA practices can be physically very demanding in a different way as I and others have pointed out.

That said, for systems not focused on these principles directly, weight training a useful part of the training.

In the late 70s in the military stationed in S-Korea practicing n-mantis, used to practice a staff set using a weight bar probably around 6kg. This also developed whole body strength as it was needed to support the weight while going through the set.


Funny story: One time practicing in the gym on base, a couple of GIs were watching. One of them made a remark, I asked if he wanted to give it a try. He said “sure,” so I tossed the bar to him. He almost dropped it,,,the look on his face was funny...things are not as easy, as they look...

Your clip using bricks

While in Germany during the cold war.

Used to use lead fishing weights practicing long arm ...
Probably not a good idea considering they were made out of lead.
Bricks would have been better.

 

[mograph]

I would offer that weight training is more beneficial to taijiquan and similar arts, if it engages multiple body structures, and trains the coordinated effort of those structures.

... along with zhan zhuang and santi shi, of course!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

These arts are less concerned with external muscle strength and more focused on cultivating internal force (內勁 / nèijìn)

If "internal" guys don't care about fighting, why do they need to develop "internal force" for? Can you use "internal force" to carry grocery bags for your wife?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Who is this Al fellow and how did he become the authority on everything? Does he even have a last name? Why is everyone asking him all the questions?

He plans to usurp your position as Grand Poobah of the western region.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Your clip using bricks

Holding bricks can develop finger gripping strength.

 

[windwalker099]

If "internal" guys don't care about fighting, why do they need to develop "internal force" for?

Some people enjoy going to the shooting range to practice hitting targets
not because they want to shoot someone, but because they value the process of developing precision, focus, and control.

They enjoy the practice, with most understanding that actual usage of the skill is a different kind of practice.
Not everyone needs or chooses to engage in the practice of usage.

They still develop the skill indirectly.

Taiji practice, starts with knowing oneself.
Later understanding the other...according to need
and interest.

Can you use "internal force" to carry grocery bags for your wife?

You might want to ask the AI that one.

If you’re asking me…

If the measure of usefulness is everyday life, wouldn’t weightlifting be enough?
If the measure is “fighting,” going to the range, practicing shooting might be more enjoyable, more practical for some than MA training.

Unless the interest is in sport fighting, which is a different, just like practicing to shoot at someone is.
One still has to develop the skill set for the intended purpose. Whether or not they use it,
some just like the practice.

 

[windwalker099]

Holding bricks can develop finger gripping strength.

We used jars, in my old training, or a stick with a rope attached to it,,,,that one would wind up bringing up a weight.
Catching beanbags filled with iron shot also good for grip training.....

A little old now...sometimes wonder about my hands, if some of the things.
I feel now is due to the training back then. Thinking back would I still have done it knowing what I know now...

Hard to say,,,maybe
done in a smarter way...

 

[Flying Crane]

He plans to usurp your position as Grand Poobah of the western region.

In Xue-Fu?? HA! Albert is gonna go down hard.

 

[Same Trick]

If "internal" guys don't care about fighting, why do they need to develop "internal force" for? Can you use "internal force" to carry grocery bags for your wife?

View attachment 32926

Yes i can, i mean my Taiji + xyq training prove quite enough for the strenuous grocery carry task(here we have “handles”on grocery bags)

 

[isshinryuronin]

However, from the perspective of internal martial arts, such as Taijiquan, Yiquan, or Baguazhang, the conversation shifts. These arts are less concerned with external muscle strength and more focused on cultivating internal force (內勁 / nèijìn) through intention (意 / yì), breath (氣 / qì), and relaxation (鬆 / sōng). The training emphasizes deep integration of the body, alignment, and sensitivity—often disrupted by externally focused or tension-heavy strength work.

My thoughts:

Internal force is developed internally (brilliant observation, huh?) and IMO external practices like weight training will have little to do with its development.

Now, both internal and external methods can be trained and intertwined in application, each giving its own benefit in a synergistic way, if wisely done.

If internal training is "often disrupted" by external methods, it is because the practitioner is at fault by over relying on external strength and not properly combining it with the internal.

In a self-defense application of a series of moves, the following is possible:

1. Soft technique followed by hard.
2. Hard technique followed by soft.
3. Entire combination soft.
4. Entire combination hard.

(The same goes for linear vs circular)

It depends on what's right, convenient or practical at any particular second of that particular encounter. That's why I don't much make a thing of internal/soft or external/hard. I see internal and external, while different in nature, as just tools in the same toolbox.

 

[windwalker099]

My thoughts:

Internal force is developed internally (brilliant observation, huh?) and IMO external practices like weight training will have little to do with its development.

Wondering if you realize the post was not written by me.

Hello, I’m an AI responding to your AI-generated reply.

a post directed @Kung Fu Wang's , AI generated answer.

Now, both internal and external methods can be trained and intertwined in application, each giving its own benefit in a synergistic way, if wisely done.

In training they are, it’s traditionally known as the Six Harmonies (六合 liù hé).

It refers to aligning the external body (shoulders-hips, elbows-knees, hands-feet) with the internal elements mind (心), intention (意), and energy (氣).

When these are truly integrated, it becomes 內外合一 (nèi wài hé yī), internal and external as one. That’s what internal training aims to develop.

Weight training, especially if it builds tension or stiffness, often works against this process. It can condition the body to rely on physical force instead of awareness, intention, and transformation.

The more important question might be:
What can someone trained in internal force do that can't be done with external methods?


For some may not feel there is much difference if any at all.
Others, like myself, find the difference profound.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Six Harmonies (六合 liù hé).

This concept can be applied to all MA systems include Karate. When you move, all body parts move. When you stop, all body part stop. How hard can that be?

I trained my 7 years old grandson "1 step 1 punch" by coordinating punch with foot landing. I request him to lift up his back foot to feel the coordination. If he throws 1000 punches daily, body coordination can be achieved in few months.

 

[windwalker099]

This concept can be applied to all MA systems include Karate. When you move, all body parts move. When you stop, all body part stop. How hard can that be?

Depends on one's understanding, how its practiced what it develops.
We have different understandings.

The teacher explains and demos it's meaning

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Traditional approaches to martial arts seem to encourage living in the past. In some ways they are like religions or cults where people choose not to question their authority figures. Classes and styles become echo chambers where all adhere to the same kind of thinking. The uniforms, stylized forms and trainings are similar to other institutions where conformity is required, like the military for example. Confirmation bias and peer pressure come into play to freeze independent thinking and experimentation, leaving us with people theorizing and defending instead of field-testing ideas. Taijiquan is a wonderful practice that can be further developed by blending modern approaches to physical and psychological training methods. As ever it comes down to individual preferences, there is no right or wrong

 

[Same Trick]

Wondering if you realize the post was not written by me.


a post directed @Kung Fu Wang's , AI generated answer.


In training they are, it’s traditionally known as the Six Harmonies (六合 liù hé).

It refers to aligning the external body (shoulders-hips, elbows-knees, hands-feet) with the internal elements mind (心), intention (意), and energy (氣).

When these are truly integrated, it becomes 內外合一 (nèi wài hé yī), internal and external as one. That’s what internal training aims to develop.

Weight training, especially if it builds tension or stiffness, often works against this process. It can condition the body to rely on physical force instead of awareness, intention, and transformation.

The more important question might be:
What can someone trained in internal force do that can't be done with external methods?


For some may not feel there is much difference if any at all.
Others, like myself, find the difference profound.

Yes, however , that specific six harmony practice was either a misunderstanding or an invention to somewhat hold back students but yet teachings them something of value.
But it has as little/much to do with martial arts/combat that weightlifting has.
The true six harmonies, the six harmonies practice that do bring health, strength and direct combat value in one, is the method that is revealed in the text(or by teachers orally teaching) on Taiji’s 13 postures and Xyq’s three old fists teaching , we can thank Yang Chengfu and Wang Xiangzhai for bringing this treasure public.

 

[windwalker099]

Yes, however , that specific six harmony practice was either a misunderstanding or an invention to somewhat hold back students but yet teachings them something of value

How do you know ?

The true six harmonies, the six harmonies practice that do bring health, strength and direct combat value in one, is the method that is revealed in the text(or by teachers orally teaching) on Taiji’s 13 postures and Xyq’s three old fists teaching , we can thank Yang Chengfu and Wang Xiangzhai for bringing this treasure public.

How about outlining the true practice according to you...

 

[Same Trick]

How do you know ?




How about outlining the true practice according to you...

The six harmonies of hip/shoulder elbow/knee hand/foot is a focus purely on self interactions - which of course has nothing direct to do with martial arts.

The true six harmony I wrote is found in the 13 postures teaching and XYQ’s 3 old fists teaching, that’s not according to “me” but to those methods

 

[windwalker099]

The six harmonies of hip/shoulder elbow/knee hand/foot is a focus purely on self interactions - which of course has nothing direct to do with martial arts.

The true six harmony I wrote is found in training 13 postures teaching and XYQ’s 3 old fists teaching, that’s not according to “me” but to those methods

With out posting the methods, it is according to you.
What are the six harmonies ?

 

[Same Trick]

With out posting the methods, it is according to you.
What are the six harmonies ?

The subject of thread is taijiquan vs Weightlifting(WL), anyway, I just pointed out on your defense for TJQ strength where you mentioning the six harmonies(6H) of shoulder/hip elbow/knee and hand/foot Although it’s correct those connectors build strength, but not in a sense they directly connect to as a martial art exercise, so it’s not really TJQ .

I previously wrote that those 6H you mention has as little/much to do with martial arts as WL does, I take that back somewhat, because WL of course work with bodies(the weights) outside of one’s own body and in this sense it’s actually more in line with martial arts than the 6H you mention.

Anyway(for the sake of the thread topic) so how can the 6H develop strength ? For example if one Imagines one’s shoulders/hips elbow/knees and hands/feet contacts by very strong/tight rubber-bands that would pull those body parts together crunching the body so for that not to happen one must counter that pull, the trick that makes this “internal” practice is to relax in the postures while doing the mind game, the exercise activate the neural paths that would activate the muscles that would have been needed to go to work if there really was any rubber-bands pulling, the exercise work on sharpening the senses to react, and in this sense of 6H you mention it’s limited to sharpening the sense of things/parts within one’s own body.

Now, one can instead make this visualizations to work with other bodies(forces) that’s outside of one’s body, kind as something as the weights/equipment the weightlifter use, but the 6H in this case I let you figure out by yourself by once again pointing to the (song of the)13 postures of TJQ. If one practice with those 6H then also Yang Chengfu’s 10 essentials will naturally fall in place.

Generalized, Weightlifting put direct focus on the muscles while TJQ (and similar) method hit more directly on the neural pathways that activates the muscles.