Styles dying out

[jobo]

So you believe that that kid is a highly trained fighter?



I like how you keep harping on Tyson, while ignoring the other examples like Renzo Gracie and Randy Courture. You asked me to name a sport where older men are still competitve, and I named 3 professionals from those sports. Would it be fair to consider Sifu Bey a professional in his "sport"?



Except Bey himself believed that his style was sufficient enough to defeat this younger fighter despite the age difference. That's sort of the point.

No i asked you to name sports where you would NORMALLY exspect a 50 yo to beat a 25yo, not to name exceptional sports men, in those sports,

Im not claiming the mma is a top draw fighter, your claiming he has ONLY 6 months training, you need to back that up, and you cant !

Like i say, the fact he is dELUSIONAL doesnt help your CASE ANY, i have 50 years experiance playing soccer, that helps not a bit if im playing 25 yo, no matter how much i believe it should

 

[Hanzou]

No i asked you to name sports where you would NORMALLY exspect a 50 yo to beat a 25yo, not to name exceptional sports men, in those sports,

Except this was a challenge match, not a sanctioned athletic competition, so that argument is nonsense.

Im not claiming the mma is a top draw fighter, your claiming he has ONLY 6 months training, you need to back that up, and you cant !

I've back it up several times. It doesn't take much to look up advanced MMA fighters and see the difference in skill level between them and this young man.

Like i say, the fact he is dELUSIONAL doesnt help your CASE ANY, i have 50 years experiance playing soccer, that helps not a bit if im playing 25 yo,

The case is that we have a kung fu master with over 30 years experience getting decked by some random guy off the street in a thread talking about why people are abandoning TMA. The fact that he is delusional about his fighting ability definitely helps my case.

I'm not seeing how you playing soccer for half a century has any relevance to the topic whatsoever.

 

[jobo]

Except this was a challenge match, not a sanctioned athletic competition, so that argument is nonsense.



I've back it up several times. It doesn't take much to look up advanced MMA fighters and see the difference in skill level between them and this young man.



The case is that we have a kung fu master with over 30 years experience getting decked by some random guy off the street in a thread talking about why people are abandoning TMA. The fact that he is delusional about his fighting ability definitely helps my case.

I'm not seeing how you playing soccer for half a century has any relevance to the topic whatsoever.

No your just back to making wild claims.

Yiu need to show the mma guy only had 6 months training.

Your making a big issue out if the tma, guys experiance, whilst ignoring the fact that someone eith 30 + years experiance is also getting old, and old is a curse in an athetic eventS most 25 yocan beat ben johnson now,

 

[Headhunter]

Except that claim is backed by the evidence that people see with their own eyes. It's pretty hard to dispute Rogan's claims when we see Hung Ga masters with 30 years experience getting KO'd by a street fighter with probably about 6 months worth of MMA training.

I know a few people around here dismiss that sort of stuff for "reasons", but you're deluding yourself if you don't think it's having a major impact among the population at large.

And has hung Ga become extinct or died out? No it hasn't so there we go.

Yeah you're one of the Mma fan boys I was thinking of

 

[Hanzou]

No your just back to making wild claims.

Yiu need to show the mma guy only had 6 months training.

His "takedown" showed that level of experience.

Your making a big issue out if the tma, guys experiance, whilst ignoring the fact that someone eith 30 + years experiance is also getting old, and old is a curse in an athetic eventS most 25 yocan beat ben johnson now,

So you're saying that in the world of TMA, having decades of experience means nothing, or isn't considered an example of legitimacy? In TMA, experience and lineage means a great deal, and Bey has both.

Also his age means nothing if he's purposely willing to fight someone younger than he is.

 

[Hanzou]

And has hung Ga become extinct or died out? No it hasn't so there we go.

Yeah you're one of the Mma fan boys I was thinking of

Hung Ga was rare in the US to begin with. I know for a fact that Bey's business took a hit because of that video.

 

[jobo]

His "takedown" showed that level of experience.



So you're saying that in the world of TMA, having decades of experience means nothing, or isn't considered an example of legitimacy? In TMA, experience and lineage means a great deal, and Bey has both.

Also his age means nothing if he's purposely willing to fight someone younger than he is.

No your unqualified opinion means nothing, give some facts to back up your claim,

The world of tma, is delusional if it belives experiance trumps physical condition, but the fact they maybe dekusional doesnt help your debate with me, as im not in anyway making that claim, in fact the exact opposite.

 

[Hanzou]

No your unqualified opinion means nothing, give some facts to back up your claim,

I did. Considering that I've trained MMA fighters in the past, I would hardly consider my opinion "unqualified".

The world of tma, is delusional if it belives experiance trumps physical condition, but the fact they maybe dekusional doesnt help your debate with me, as im not in anyway making that claim, in fact the exact opposite.

You started this "debate" by trying to say that these were just two random guys fighting. When I proved that one of the fighters was a respected Kung Fu instructor with decades of experience you then defaulted to trying to argue that this kid isn't anything more than some random guy off the street challenging someone else.

What claim are you attempting to make exactly?

 

[jobo]

I did. Considering that I've trained MMA fighters in the past, I would hardly consider my opinion "unqualified".



You started this "debate" by trying to say that these were just two random guys fighting. When I proved that one of the fighters was a respected Kung Fu instructor with decades of experience you then defaulted to trying to argue that this kid isn't anything more than some random guy off the street challenging someone else.

What claim are you attempting to make exactly?

No i said they looked like two ramdom guys fighting, i didnt take my opinion and state ut as a fact, like you did, ?

So rather than drag on with this for pages, can we concluded you have no facts to back up your claim he onky has 6 months training,

, im claiming that young fit men tend to beat okd fat men,,,So we are left with yiung man with an undetermend amount of training, beats up middle aged over weight guy, ..

What else does that vid prove?

 

[Headhunter]

Hung Ga was rare in the US to begin with. I know for a fact that Bey's business took a hit because of that video.

I really don't care about beys school whoever that is. The point is it's not died out which is the whole point of this thread. So you can keep up with your Mma is number 1 propaganda bs if you want but the fact is it's not true. Traditional styles are most certainly not dying out

 

[Hanzou]

No i said they looked like two ramdom guys fighting, i didnt take my opinion and state ut as a fact, like you did, ?

Thanks once again for proving my point. If a Kung Fu practicioner with over 30 years experience and hundreds of students looks like a "random guy fighting" then that says quite a bit about his training, and why such styles are declining in popularity.

So rather than drag on with this for pages, can we concluded you have no facts to back up your claim he onky has 6 months training,

So are you arguing that this kid has had far more than 6 months worth of training?

,

im claiming that young fit men tend to beat okd fat men,,,So we are left with yiung man with an undetermend amount of training, beats up middle aged over weight guy, ..

What else does that vid prove?

Yes they do, if they're two random guys. However, if the older man has had extensive martial arts training and the younger fit man hasn't, then we expect the older man with a high level of training to overcome the younger assailant's strength and speed. Just like we expect a woman who has extensive training in the martial arts to be able to overcome the strength and speed of a larger man. If we didn't expect this, why train in martial arts to protect ourselves?

 

[Hanzou]

I really don't care about beys school whoever that is. The point is it's not died out which is the whole point of this thread.

No, it hasn't died out.... yet.

Here's two interesting articles about traditional martial arts in China and how MMA has begun to wipe out their native systems. I can only imagine that this is accelerating as MMA and BJJ has grown in popularity in China:

Exit the Dragon? Kung Fu, Once Central to Hong Kong Life, Is Waning
Kung Fu’s Identity Crisis

And in America:
Where have all the martial artists gone? Should we blame MMA?

So you can keep up with your Mma is number 1 propaganda bs if you want but the fact is it's not true. Traditional styles are most certainly not dying out

Again, it isn't propaganda if that belief is being supported over and over and over again.

 

[jobo]

Thanks once again for proving my point. If a Kung Fu practicioner with over 30 years experience and hundreds of students looks like a "random guy fighting" then that says quite a bit about his training, and why such styles are declining in popularity.



So are you arguing that this kid has had far more than 6 months worth of training?

,

Yes they do, if they're two random guys. However, if the older man has had extensive martial arts training and the younger fit man hasn't, then we expect the older man with a high level of training to overcome the younger assailant's strength and speed. Just like we expect a woman who has extensive training in the martial arts to be able to overcome the strength and speed of a larger man. If we didn't expect this, why train in martial arts to protect ourselves?

No we dont theres good reason why most sports men retire between 30 and 40, the amiunt of skill and experiance cant cope with the fall off in there physical condition.

Ive made the piint before that a lot of people would do better at defending themselves if they did weight trainibg rather ( or togethet with )than ma, particularly older people, for who the gains in skill will selspdom make up for the lack if cobditioning

No im claiming you cant prove YOUR claim

 

[Hanzou]

No we dont theres good reason why most sports men retire between 30 and 40, the amiunt of skill and experiance cant cope with the fall off in there physical condition.

Again, we're not talking about a sanctioned sports event, we're talking about a challenge match between two people on the street.

No im claiming you cant prove YOUR claim

Again, my claim is that he is an amateur to a beginner in MMA. What exactly are you claiming otherwise?

 

[Mitlov]

No your unqualified opinion means nothing, give some facts to back up your claim,

The world of tma, is delusional if it belives experiance trumps physical condition, but the fact they maybe dekusional doesnt help your debate with me, as im not in anyway making that claim, in fact the exact opposite.

Imagine what would happen if we held boxing to that standard, and evaluated Freddie Roach, not on his coaching ability, but on whether he personally could beat some young dude from another style in a challenge match.

Whether or not you like Hung Gar, the fact that an athletic youth beat up an older Hung Gar instructor really doesn't prove much.

 

[jobo]

Again, we're not talking about a sanctioned sports event, we're talking about a challenge match between two people on the street.



Again, my claim is that he is an amateur to a beginner in MMA. What exactly are you claiming otherwise?

Back to wild clsims, they werent two people onn the street, they were in some sort of structure

Itvwas an athletic challenge, what has sanctioned got to do with that, it would be an " athletic event" c event if they decieded to have a foot race, the younger/ fitter one would still most likely win

No your claim was specifically he only had 6 months training, are you with drawing that claim now,? then we can ask you to back up yiyr latest one

 

[jobo]

Imagine what would happen if we held boxing to that standard, and evaluated Freddie Roach, not on his coaching ability, but on whether he personally could beat some young dude from another style in a challenge match.

Whether or not you like Hung Gar, the fact that an athletic youth beat up an older Hung Gar instructor really doesn't prove much.

Yes , my point exactly, your instuctOr doesNt have to beat the world or even be very good to be a goOd instructor

 

[Martial D]

Before: How can you expect someone that practices a system that takes 30 years to master to beat anyone before 30 years of training?

After: Yes he has had 30 years of training, but how can you expect someone so old to beat anyone?


The ouroboros of TMA.

 

[jobo]

Before: How can you expect someone that practices a system that takes 30 years to master to beat anyone before 30 years of training?

After: Yes he has had 30 years of training, but how can you expect someone so old to beat anyone?


The ouroboros of TMA.

Well thats either a fair pOint or a strawman ? , who has claimed it takes 30 Plus years to master ? not me for sure

 

[Martial D]

Well thats either a fair pOint or a strawman ? , who has claimed it takes 30 Plus years to master ? not me for sure

Just an observation. While you have not mentioned the training time, that's usually how it goes.(the recent aikido threads come to mind)