Student striking with far too much power

[Zero]

Alex, thank you for your responses, however, either Chris is right in one of his suppositions and you are an accomplished troll and a dedicated one at that or you are sincere in your thoughts and words. I would like to believe you are not a troll and I think that you are sincere and do believe in what you are posting.

I would say from you video that you do display some skill with your balance and applications (but nothing more than should be expected) but somehow you are I fear quite out of touch with reality when it comes to MA and fighting - actual fighting. You do appear young and very eager, so much can be understood or forgiven, but even so many of your statements or assertions just do not seem grounded in reality or and many of your comments do not stack up with the experience and knowledge of versed or veteran practitioners.

If you really think a palm strike of yours could stand up to or stop a legitmate, full power muay thai roundhouse (or any roundhouse with the shin as the striking weapon) then you are teetering very closely towards Chris' definition of delusional. Either that or you simply have never experienced a true roundhouse kick. My take on this is that you are sincere and have some training experience but I do not think you can have competed or trained in any full contact environment (which is absoultely fine!!) but I think the majority of your experience must be of the type as per your video, i.e. "play-about", no/limited contact. Coupled with this, is the problem that you have either had teachers/instructors that have never taken the time or had the ability to teach you the sinmple truths about a fight or, as I think may be the case, you have flitted from style to style and taken some techniques but none of the home truths. You may think you are training or fighting hard or doing full-on conditioning but I am afraid this is not the case. I think if you find yourself in a real tournament or a serious fight you are going to get severely crunched but it may be the wake-up call you drastically need.

Some other of your comments as noted above such as "shattering jaws" etc add to this conclusion , at least on my behalf.

You need to understand how this can be at first accommodated but then be found frustrating for more experienced members on this forum.

Let me stress, I am not trying to be offensive or run you down but I am hoping you will take some time and self-evaluate and think on these things, really look into yourself and think on these things (as I do think you are intelligent). Then leave this Uni MA environment you are in, if you can (I know cost and location/travel can be an issue), stop training on your own, stop training with the people and friends you are currently training with and find a decent teacher and/or school (a small no-nonsense school preferably) and spend some time there. I'm open minded to most styles of MA but I think at this stage the most benefical type for you will not be the soft styles but rather will be something like muay thai or kyokoshin or even boxing. You can then move on from there. This is all said to help you as you are missing so much. You could go on happily for the rest of your life believing and stating what you currently do but you will be doing yourself a disservice in the long run, please believe me on this one.

 

[Aiki Lee]

You've never thrown a technique at a student to demonstrate how you could havegotten them from whatever habit is making them vulnerable?

No. If I spot a bad habit and can effectively attack mytraining partner I attack him and knock him on his ***. I expect them to do thesame to me.

My apology for the misnomer. People generally have anexpectation of what's considered normal. I have seen many times through martialarts people do things others would consider superhuman. Doesn't mean superpowered, it just means that their definition of human limitations is less thanwhat we can actually do.

OK. I agree with the way you worded this.

Nope you got that pretty pat. Since there was no set identifier to win, scorepoints, etc, we basically just threw techniques willy nilly and reacted tothem. This was about just having a good time, and showing a video to this forumthat I am in fact not hitting people too hard. He and I used to do this all thetime, and it had been several years since our teacher retired so it's beenawhile since we stuck to a format which you could really say had a definitivetraining point.

See personally I don’t see anything to gain from filmingthat and showing it to people. It’s ok to goof around sometimes, but there isreally no benefit to that kind of sparring in my opinion that isn’t betterserved by doing something else.

In some forms of TKD this is where one person attacks 3 times, the other backsup, then the defender attacks 3 times, repeat. Sometimes shadow boxing isreferred to as promise sparring.

Thank you for your clarification.

I'm a bit confused by this. The application for kicks iseither to damage, jam, intercept, or block.

Without seeing the follow through of such things I amunsure how you personally would utilize them effectively. Without a tacticalapproach I can’t see how you plan to chain such movements together and what youwould target and why. That’s what I’ve been looking for in your videos.

I suppose if you REALLY want me to be specific, Alec and I mainly used Chung DoKwan, some Okinawa-Te. But ah sorry mate, every single time I folded my kneeafter kicking, say from a front kick to a round-kick, that was utilizing theShotokan methodology of kicking.

A lot of people think that mimicking the mechanics of atechnique means you are utilizing the art that technique comes from, but that’snot how it works. Every martial art has a martial philosophy expressed throughtechniques. It’s not enough that it looks like a karateka’s kick, you have touse it how a karateka would.

I baited him to stomp the leg, because he is taller than me, and as a joke topoke fun at me, he lowered himself to my height. The only only way for me to dothat without getting whomped would have been to pull a move he either didn'texpect or was familiar with. And once he went for the bait you can see I use itto attack him. In a real setting, I'd never do that, and if this was real, Alecwould have snapped my leg.

So you were playing not training. Training involvesimproving what you’re doing to increase your martial skill. Performing thingsyou’d never actually do doesn’t aid you in any way.

I hope by the 10th time we've been swept, we all learn to keep an eye out forit. Most of the time the sweeps fail for the exact reason you cited. But thenagain, I've also had a number fail for the reasons I gave above.

You don’t take out someone’s legs when they are inposition to defend against it. You must properly set up the sweep or takedown.You never go for your technique right away, you set up your technique and makethe guy believe you are trying to do something else.

thank you for these words specifically. You are right. The only real point ofthis idea apart from fooling around was to demonstrate control in a chaoticsetting. I would say, at best, our fighting strategy there was eithernonexistant, or just chaos itself lol.

If I post a video again, is that what you would be looking for?

If you were to post another video I would be interestedin seeing your strategic approach. How would you actually do your technique inapplication against a realistic attacker?

I disagree, you can use the axe kicks for many things. I primarily use it toknock hands away. Occasionally I'll use it to make face contact, but it reallyis a great kick for the collar bone, and if you target the heel at a limb itcan deaden it.

I’m really going to have to disagree with you there. I don’tthink the axe kick is useful for any of those things as there are much more reliablemethods to get those results.

By the way (and this is for everyone), I’m sorry if myposts can be difficult to read at times. Since I tend to lose what I’m typingdirectly into the reply box as I often get the message of “martial talk is notresponding” I’ve taken to copying everything into Word, then copying it back toMT. This jumbles up the spacing for some reason and while I try to fix it inediting I never seem to catch it all.
I’m really a better writer than I appear to be! :uhyeah:
…well, at least I pretend that I am.

 

[Zero]

Generally I would agree that the axe kick is not the one to put at the top of anyone's repertoire but it can have it's place and can be a collar bone buster and can effect a KO, it can have a nasty downward swipe across the head or face. Very, very few can use this as an offensive tech without opening themselves to a can of wup-ar#^. Andy Hug was one of the few that used this very kick to brilliant effect on numerous occassions against world class karate and K1 guys. When done right and in close it is actually a hard kick to block. I have trained this kick a lot and had to worked a lot on flexibility to do so but even so have only used this in sparring and for fun and never in a serious tournament (I like to think I will one day).

I would agree that there are more reliable and "safer" ways to do a knock out kick but there is not much that can replicate the downward sweep to the head or the downward impact to the collar bone of an axe kick, no other kick I am aware of and a fist or hand strike does not have the same travel/distance ability or impact power (unless you got one monster long set of arms!!). Again, this does not mean these are the strikes you will be going for.

 

[Gnarlie]

This thread reminds me a bit of those pop star audition shows, where the judges panel are brutally honest with the teenagers who can't really sing and don't have any talent but are somehow blissfully unaware of that fact. You laugh, for a while, and then you realise that there might be something fundamentally not quite right about the candidate, and maybe it's not ok and perhaps a bit cruel to laugh. Still, it makes for popular entertainment. And terrible, truly awful music.

Here are some highlights of absolute loose stool water, edited together over a Celine Dion emotional rollercoaster warblefest:

Much in life, and in the mistakes we make are nonsense....

...he and I both concur had I even knicked him, his jaw would have shattered....

...even to this day am comfortable blocking a roundhouse kick with a heavy palm from even WTF practitioners. Though ah, I tend to still have to brace for any Muai Thai kicks....

...in the 1 second where I can on average throw 5-6 solid punches, I can only do 2-3 solid kicks...

...the kick I threw was a Silat roundhouse...

...it is a difficult for many to actually perfect...

...There is an ability to make contact with a strike in such a way that the kinetic energy of the strike transfers, and if one is fast enough, the kinetic energy will not have a chance to return...

...either because it disperses, or you moved faster than the initial acceleration of the kinetic force, which while interacting with a different material will either slow down, or less likely speed up...

...physics mandates that energy be returned in equal force, the difference for us is that because we channel and focus our striking power this automatically causes our strikes to penetrate the surface...

...This is how some practitioners can strike you in the stomach, and you can feel it in the shoulder....

... If you strike and make the barest contact possible, say at 5 miles per hour, and can cause the internal energy of your external strike to extend say 1-2 inches, then pull the hand which made contact back at a speed greater than contact made, if done correctly the kinetic energy stays in the limb or structure that was made contact with...


... So that being said, when it comes to sweeping, you can try it, but you never know if they not only know how to counter it, but might be willing to take it for that reason. I do. I see a sweep coming I just let them ram their shin against mine....

...In a real setting, I'd never do that, and if this was real, Alec would have snapped my leg...

The palm block vs WTF thing is just priceless, as is the leg snapping. Hilarious. It's the David Brent of martial arts.

Gnarlie

 

[jks9199]

You are correct, I was throwing it about half speed, but with enough power behind the technique that he and I both concur had I even knicked him, his jaw would have shattered.

Half-speed, but still so powerful that you would have shattered his jaw? I'm more than a little skeptical. While it's overly simplistic for the human body, F=ma^2. Half the power, and you reduce the force by the square of 1/2. At half speed, you should have easily been able to deflect or redirect your kick without some insane attempt at self-blocking.

No, I threw between 40-50% of what my actual speed is capable of, and my hands are much faster than my legs. For example in the 1 second where I can on average throw 5-6 solid punches, I can only do 2-3 solid kicks. The kick I threw was a Silat roundhouse, initiated with a swing, but with the leg bent so that upon maximum extent I would make contact between the instep and lower shin.

More on this part in a few moments... For the moment, let's just note that you're claiming your punch takes about .2 seconds.

I demonstrate this occasionally, but it is a difficult for many to actually perfect. Too many are afraid to test this against the wall lol. There is an ability to make contact with a strike in such a way that the kinetic energy of the strike transfers, and if one is fast enough, the kinetic energy will not have a chance to return, either because it disperses, or you moved faster than the initial acceleration of the kinetic force, which while interacting with a different material will either slow down, or less likely speed up.

If you punch say, a wall, physics mandates that energy be returned in equal force, the difference for us is that because we channel and focus our striking power this automatically causes our strikes to penetrate the surface. However, in martial arts we are sometimes taught how to strike and cause the kinetic energy in our strikes to internally enter the persons body through this principle. This is how some practitioners can strike you in the stomach, and you can feel it in the shoulder. Or in my case, with a heavybag they will feel it in their spine. If you strike and make the barest contact possible, say at 5 miles per hour, and can cause the internal energy of your external strike to extend say 1-2 inches, then pull the hand which made contact back at a speed greater than contact made, if done correctly the kinetic energy stays in the limb or structure that was made contact with. In Hapkido and live hands, this type of strike usually takes the path of least resistance and travels through your nerves, and hence why hapkido strikes can numb where they hit, or worse.

No. Review the physics.

Super ability. I get a lot of people saying things along those lines. I doubt I am any different than any other martial art on this board, outside of our unique experiences. I think a lot of martial artists on this board forget that in many ways they are also superhuman, given that you consider what we do to be beyond normal human limits, and some people do take their arts to that degree.

Anyone who can successfully do a snapping punch and break the sound barrier, I would say is superhuman. The giftedman who because of incredible spatial awareness can tell where anything aimed at him will be, and can thus cut even pellets midair, is superhuman. The man who through meditation was able to hike everest in shorts was superhuman. Ip man, jumping from roof to roof in pursuit of a man ended up having the door slammed on him to a top level staircase by the robber, and instead of falling down, he controlled his balance, leaning almost backward, righted himself, and then continued the chase. That was superhuman. When my master broke 6 cinderblocks without any spacing between, demonstrating live hands application of hapkido, that was superhuman.

In Alex's defense, this is true. Anyone who can punch faster than the speed of sound is superhuman. Just like those guys who can catch bullets and leap over tall buildings in a single bound. I'm sure we aren't so cynical as to believe these people don't exist.

OK, let's look at that punching faster than sound... I'll give Alex his word that he punches 5 to 6 punches in a second. We'll use five, because .2 seconds is easier. Let's even give him further benefit, and look at 2 scenarios. The first is covering about 1 foot to the target from sparring range. So, he's covering 1 foot in .2 seconds, in that scenario, equivalent to 5 fps, right? The speed of sound is roughly 1,126 fps. So... Not even close! OK, let's maximize his speed. Let's figure he's selling 3 feet from a chambered position at his chest. That's probably a pretty big guy... (I'm 5-9, average length arms, and I just measured 2 feet from my chest to the end of my punch. Maybe a another 2 or 3 inches really from a chamber). So, we've tripled the speed (covering three times the distance in the same time; speed=distance/time) to 15 fps. Still nowhere close to the speed of sound.

The stuff you've listed sounds like movie scenes (except the 6 block break; that's impressive, but believable). Movie's ain't reality. I don't know how to say it more clearly. I did just look up the guy (Wim Hof) who climbed Everest in shorts. That's pretty impressive, and freaky.

 

[K-man]

:bs:
:BS:

We need a larger BS flag....

That is exactly why I was suggesting the need for a new emoticon. :asian:

 

[Josealb]

Faster than the speed of sound, huh? Well, the fastest punch in the Guinness book of world records is 44 mph. Considering that the speed of sound is 760 mph, well...no need to kick a downed horse.

 

[Dirty Dog]

That is exactly why I was suggesting the need for a new emoticon. :asian:

Maybe something like this.


or
View attachment $BS pig.jpg

Just to make it easier to reply to an Alex post.

 

[K-man]

I suppose if you REALLY want me to be specific, Alec and I mainly used Chung Do Kwan, some Okinawa-Te. But ah sorry mate, every single time I folded my knee after kicking, say from a front kick to a round-kick, that was utilizing the Shotokan methodology of kicking.

Alex, in the time you have been on this forum you have claimed to have trained or reached instructor level for just about every martial art on this planet. Whether you practise Chung Do Qwan or not I could not possibly tell as what you have posted is more like the style my four year old grandson uses when we 'play' karate. The main difference is that he doesn't do your flashy kicks. I'm thinking if he is as good as you were at his age I really should be giving him his black belt for his fifth birthday. That would put him on course to be as good as you by the time he gets to 18. (Actually, no offence, he will be a lot better than you at 18 or I shouldn't be teaching.)

As far as I can remember, this is the first time you have claimed to practise Okinawa-Te. I find that really interesting as the guy who developed Chung Do Qwan is alleged to have studied Kung Fu in China before getting his black belt in Shotokan from Funakoshi. That being the case, why would you study Okinawa-Te? There would only be a handful of schools teaching that. If you are talking about Doversola's Okinawa-Te then what you have demonstrated is pretty much the opposite. If you are talking about the old style of Okinawa-Te as practised in Okinawa in the early 1900's then you are even further away. That is what evolved into Okinawan Karate of various flavours. That must mean you are referring to Te as practised in Okinawa prior to 1900, before if had the kicking and striking added. I find that really interesting because I actually teach what I believe to be 'Te'. I call what I do Tegumi. What you show is as far from what I teach as Pluto is from Mars.

For your claim to practise Okinawa-te, I award you ... <drum roll> ... :bs1: