Stop Saying “Traditional” Martial Arts
- Thread starter Seibukan Connection
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Is it really traditional though? The karate we practice today is mostly a relatively modern product of the changes made to it when brought to Japan. IMO one of the main reasons the term traditional martial arts is inaccurate.
This is a good starting point for Greco-Roman Wrestling and why it has become what it has become today.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
defining “traditional” comes up pretty often. For what it’s worth, I think traditional arts prioritize doing things as taught and coloring inside the lines. Styles that are less often considered traditional tend to welcome innovation and growth.
This is true but I think it's more to it than that. I think this reasoning exists because those before us already Colored outside of the line only to learn through experience that Coloring inside the line is the way that it should have been done in the first place. Long Fist strikes are in MMA are Slowly looking more and more like the Traditional Way of using that big wheel type punch. The first sign to watch for is Fist Formation. Then punching technique.
This is how a traditional long fist punch is taught. Fist formation: His thumb is not wrapped around the fingers.
Striking surface: He does not try to strike with the first knuckles which are normally used in this striking. This is a very traditional strike here for long fist. This is why Traditional Martial Artist Color inside the lines. It's not because it's traditional, but because those who came before us colored outside the lines and this is where the evolution of that big looping punch led. The only way this punch should evolve is from this starting point. Doing anything else will just be learning the hard lessons of the past and eventually reaching this same realization "This is the best way to throw this type of long fist punch."
One more thing about this image. The punching arm not only Strikes the face but it also pins down his opponents Arm. This will only be possible by using the Traditional Method of throwing this type of punch. It does not happen on the MMA Looping Overhand punch because of the angle of the elbow when it comes in.
Why does this matter? Simple. What if you miss then what?` Pinning of an arm will prevent an opponent from regainign balance. There are a lot of benefits to the traditional way of throwing the first.
Why does this matter? Simple. What if you miss then what?` Pinning of an arm will prevent an opponent from regainign balance. There are a lot of benefits to the traditional way of throwing the first.
isshinryuronin
Senior Master
Karate is an old product, modified by centuries of changes (detailed in my post #7). Modern karate represents the accumulated principles and changes containing both the old and newer ways: Like a river containing the water from its source and having newer water joining in from various streams on its journey to the sea.
And this is a good thing? Maybe. Perhaps the innovations are needed as the style (or often the teacher who does not deeply understand his style) has no strong traditional base to build upon so must look elsewhere for material/principles. Also, innovations are sometimes added just to add more stuff and make it seem attractive. My car was innovative having heads-up display, memory mirrors, wipers that start automatically, heated seats...Not only do these things not enhance my driving experience, but they often detract from it.
That’s why I said it wasn’t logical.
I don’t think many of us practise a true martial art (and fight system used in actual warfare or lethal combat) let alone an ancient one, but we have an irrational ‘feeling’ that we do and I think that’s absolutely fine and acceptable.
Pico’s thumb is wrapped around the fingers. Also, he uses boxing's first row of knuckles...
From open stance, Pico steps outside of De Jesus' lead foot which controls De Jesus' lead arm via positioning. Pico lands the overhand while De Jesus' foot is still in the air.
As I tried explaining before, Pico's entry and timing leads to the overhand KO. If Pico tried to clear, grab or harm De Jesus' lead arm, then the KO is less likely to happen. Because, his timing would have been late.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
It’s just a thing.
You can't land on the first knuckles if the arm is fully extended. You would need to bend the elbow to land on those knuckles. He made impact with a straight arm. If you wrap your thumb around your finger with this punch then you be at high risk for breaking your thumb.
That's how the long fist punch is done I've said it many times before. Step off center at a 45 degree angle. I don't know what you are talking about grab or clear. That has nothing to do with the swinging arm. Neither does a KO punch. Technique is Technique. KO doesn't determine the structure of the technique.
I throw these type of punches all the time go hit a heavy bad the way you say then your can learn the hard way. You don't even use or train this type of punch.
The rear straight, cross and overhand fully extended are taught, trained and landed using the first row of knuckles which is evidenced on film. The video and frame show Pico landing the overhand with the thumb around the fingers and the first row of knuckles.
Again, there is a difference in entering, timing and positioning if Pico were to clear, grab or harm the lead arm first.
By ‘traditions’ do you mean rituals, perhaps?
Modern Karate tradition = shouting “BOW!” before bowing!
I’ve now taken to shouting “SHAKE HANDS” whilst offering my hand.
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