Stick techniques

[Don Roley]

Hello Mr. Roley,

Although, I have lapsed in my Shidoshikai, that does not mean I do not practice what Hatsumi Soke teaches,or could ever let go of the past 15 years worth of training in Budo Taijutsu.

Does not matter. I have heard the same from others like Brian McCarthy and such. The fact remians that you advertise as a Bujinkan dojo when you are not part of the orginization. Dale already dealt with the rules about that. I will just point out that what you are doing is like working at a McDonald's and then going out and opening your own restraut using the same name.

And you do not teach only Bujinkan do you? If you taught Bujinkan 99 percent of the itme and taught things like sinawali at optional seminars, that would be different. But aside from the fact that you use the Bujinkan name without deferring to Hatsumi or agreeing to his conditions, you are also teaching things that he would not.

I am not saying that what you are teaching is bad. But when someone comes into a Bujinkan dojo, they are within their rights to demand that what they see is as close to what the head of the Bujinkan stresses. If you start your own art and list your Bujinkan experience on your resume, great. No one can take the experiences you had away from you. But when you use the Bujinkan name as part of your web address, you morally should be trying to be a Bujinkan dojo instead of just using the name to attract students.

 

[[email protected]]

Hello Everyone,

Dale Sensei, no problem, I get jumped on by many people, doesn’t rile me in any way.

Mr. Roley, you again try to subvert this conversation to the political end, instead of just sharing knowledge openly. I’ll try to answer you as best I can, first: your McDonalds reference is not accurate. I am open and honest when any prospective student comes to this school. They have the option to train in any or all of the arts offered, as well they know my stance on the political situation of the various branch schools. (There is also a hamburger restaurant called McDonald’s that is not a part of the franchise chain) Each of the programs is taught separately, and students freely can take any classes they wish. If someone wishes to take only a Combative Concepts class they can do this, if they only want the Budo Taijutsu they can do this as well. Actually, no one has the right to “demand” anything, this goes into the “entitlement theory” that hurts society and the martial arts all the time. A student can request to see if what we teach is what he wants to learn, and I offer them these opportunities. Also, you cannot ask or teach me of morality, as you and I come from different backgrounds and as I have stated earlier, morality is founded early in your youth, and I highly doubt that you can teach me about this. Now I hope you can bring your experiences in stick fighting here to the table for discussion, let’s put aside the political agenda, and move forward.

Ron Sensei,

Way back at the Wimberly Texas TaiKai, Brian sensei first introduced me to the Kukishinden ryu bojutsu!!!. Last year, at the Sayoc Kali Sama Sama, my student and I did a full contact wooden naginata vs sword demo! I’ll have to add some clips up to my site, most people had never seen a demo done like this. In the early 80’s I use to Okinawan style rokushakubojutsu fight with boxing gloves, and some headgear on. Getting hit really rocked your clock!!

Train Hard it is the Way!

Steve Lefebvre, Airyu

www.Bujinkandojo.net

 

[Don Roley]

Mr. Roley, you again try to subvert this conversation to the political end, instead of just sharing knowledge openly.

Excuse me, you brought the subject up into a conversation about stick techniques.

You want to talk about stick techniques, you should stick to the subject. (Pun not intended.) You start talking about why you left the Bujinkan, well, that opens up the conversation to that area. There seems to be a lot of threads lately started by certain people that end up talking about how Bujinkan doesn't cut it in combat and the new system being marketed is so much better.

And the fact remains, you are not a member of the Bujinkan but use its name. You have Bujinkan as part of your web site address for students to find, but won't subject yourself to the direction of the head of the Bujinkan. And no matter how much you may say that you are following in the footsteps of the Bujinkan, you are making excuses to not seek out more instruction from Hatsumi in Japan.

And those are the facts. Fell free to make more excuses. Or maybe just talk about stick techniques instead of how you think your system is so much better than the Bujinkan. Gee, how did that get into yet another thread?

 

[Dale Seago]

Really? What is "The Right background"?

Best response I can give you is to point you toward this thread, Basic Requirements For The Job, started by one of our directors at another forum. (His occasional comments about "ninjas" are tongue in cheek -- he's well aware that he has some Booj folks working for him.)

As far as the job-specific training he talks about is concerned, the current "company standard" is this program presented by our International Training Group. You can download the pretty .pdf brochure on the right, or go to the "Modules" links underneath that and click on the (+) signs for more complete information on each section.

We not only put our own agents through this, but the training program is open to others as well (frankly, it also helps us identify good people we might like to have working for us).

 

[Enson]

apart from the hanbo does anyone use or train with escrima too?
oh wait dr. roley made this political again. he should run for office. hee hee!

 

[heretic888]

oh wait dr. roley made this political again. he should run for office. hee hee!

Don didn't make it "political" (whatever that's supposed to mean).

The poster that decided to state how his/her system is SOOOOO much better than the Bujinkan did. This used to happen all the time at e-budo, and it usually centered around 2 or 3 individuals bringing the issue up again and again.

Laterz.

 

[Enson]

Don didn't make it "political" (whatever that's supposed to mean).

The poster that decided to state how his/her system is SOOOOO much better than the Bujinkan did. This used to happen all the time at e-budo, and it usually centered around 2 or 3 individuals bringing the issue up again and again.

Laterz.

congrats on your black belt in the forum heretic888.

 

[heretic888]

congrats on your black belt in the forum heretic888.

*looks around* Whoa, hey!! Where'd that come from?? LOL. :ultracool

Oh, and thanks. :asian:

 

[Dale Seago]

Really? What is "The Right background"?

A little follow-up, just released last night on the employee e-mail system:

July 7, 2004

The Steele Foundation is a global provider of a broad range of specialized risk management and training services that are designed to mitigate loss through customized and flexible solutions supported by our unmatched professional expertise.

As industry leaders servicing clients such as the Office of the President of three foreign countries and many Fortune 100 companies, The Steele Foundation presents unparalleled experience and subject matter expertise in the fields of Executive & Dignitary Protection and Training. The Steele Foundation's International Training Group (ITG) is defining new training standards, which reflect this same high caliber of expertise, organization, and professionalism.

We believe in active, hands-on training programs. This is not simply another lecture or seminar opportunity. You will learn the concepts, the methodology, and the reasons why that methodology is effective. You will also be given ample opportunity to practice what is taught, using realistic scenarios in various detail configurations. You will learn that as the detail configuration and threat environment changes, you will be able to adapt, use initiative, and develop a protective operation that provides adequate deterrence, mitigates the threat, and can respond accordingly to lessen the effectiveness of any of the attack scenarios that a protective agent might face.

Successful protective agents must be flexible in their skill base in order to respond to a developing, dynamic industry. Whether you are a seasoned professional looking for additional methodology to enhance your existing skill set or someone interested in a career in the protective services industry, Steele’s International Training Group will provide you the appropriate curriculum and practical exercises to support your needs.

To learn more about Steele's International Training Group or to Register for Upcoming Courses:

ITG Training Website: www.steelefoundation.com/training/training.php

Sincerely
For and on behalf of,
THE STEELE FOUNDATION

Worldwide Headquarters
388 Market Street, Fifth Floor
San Francisco, CA 94111 USA
Tel +1 (800) 576 5423

[email protected]
www.steelefoundation.com

The course, BTW, is 14 straight days (including weekends) of very intensive work, averaging 10-12 hours per day; total cost around $3,400 (I don't have the exact figure handy, could be a skosh more) if the 2-day firearms course is included.

 

[Cryozombie]

Best response I can give you is to point you toward this thread, Basic Requirements For The Job,

Ah, so they are looking for Protective training for over there not military. I asked cuz a friend who fought in Desert Storm was talking about finding a group to hook up with and go back over there for the cash.

Enson,

I have not USED escrima in years and years and years, but we have done a small amount of "Anti-escrima" recently. Mostly because I asked about it in class one day, we spent about 30 minutes on it.

 

[Dale Seago]

Ah, so they are looking for Protective training for over there not military. I asked cuz a friend who fought in Desert Storm was talking about finding a group to hook up with and go back over there for the cash.

For that, a military background is VERY helpful (over there we're protecting individual executives, facilities, transport convoys, etc., etc., and these things are run like military team operations) but may not be enough in itself. The agent in the photo, for instance, is a Desert Storm vet with previous time in the area who has ALSO done EP work for Steele for the past two or three years. We sent him to Iraq for 3 months earlier this year, and he's just leaving again this week for a month in Saudi Arabia.

You're not the first person here on the forum to ask about this stuff, but I should stop cluttering up this thread with it; so if anyone else wants to know more, just e-mail me at [email protected]

 

[ronhughen]

Whoa! Ralph has a Mini-Me!

Now now Jay.. don't be rude.

I’m not sure rude is the right word . . . but it sure was not very mature . . . or professional. Well, It did not bug me that much . . . we are trying to have a serious conversation and invite some intelligent argument. That kind of thing seems to be an attempt to distract the focus of the conversation. I see it for what it really is.

 

[ronhughen]

Way back at the Wimberly Texas TaiKai, Brian sensei first introduced me to the Kukishinden ryu bojutsu!!!. Last year, at the Sayoc Kali Sama Sama, my student and I did a full contact wooden naginata vs sword demo! I’ll have to add some clips up to my site, most people had never seen a demo done like this. In the early 80’s I use to Okinawan style rokushakubojutsu fight with boxing gloves, and some headgear on. Getting hit really rocked your clock!!

I few years ago I made a pair of sparring rokushakubos using a five-foot, light rattan core, wrapped it in foam pipe insulation, heavily padded the ends with high density foam, and wrapped the whole thing in my favorite wonder material . . . duct tape. The looked kinda like giant Q-tips. I was partially inspired by some things they had on a TV show called “American Gladiators”. They were really fun, and actually pretty hard to hurt your self or someone else with. I used to have a bunch of 13 and 14 year old students and they loved going at each other with them. When I was living in Dallas a big guy (ok, he was actually . . . fat) fell on one and broke it (until then I did not know you could break rattan). I need to make another set of those . . .



I like sparring with padded weapons more than regular weapons while wearing armor and hockey gloves . . . I dislike the restricted movement of the armor and the gloves make it so hard to hold onto the weapon . . . I like the more natural hand feeling using padded weapons . . . as I get older I feel more like not being as rough as I used to . . . trying to be nicer to the body

 

[ronhughen]

Does not matter. I have heard the same from others like Brian McCarthy and such. The fact remians that you advertise as a Bujinkan dojo when you are not part of the orginization. Dale already dealt with the rules about that. I will just point out that what you are doing is like working at a McDonald's and then going out and opening your own restraut using the same name.

:idunno: Hmmmm, with my completely outsider perspective, it sems like you guys are going to run a lot of good people out of your organization. Why? Steve sensei seemed to say earlier that he had simply let his membership slide because he was busy. Mr. Roley, are you saying he should not be welcome as a member if he catches up on the dues? Why so rigid? He has been "legit" in the past, and I suppose that is why he has used the BJK name for his school? What does it matter if a senior member, with years of membership, pays periodic dues a little late? Are you looking for reasons to expell people? If so, Why?

Sorry, I am just generally put off by the way our modern culture places so much importance on arbitrary things like deadlines . . . as if they are actually meaningful . . . I would think there is a lot more meaning in having really good people as members fo an organization . . . so dues slip a month or two here or there . . . really, whats the big deal?

Just my opinion . . .

 

[Jay Bell]

I’m not sure rude is the right word . . . but it sure was not very mature . . . or professional. Well, It did not bug me that much . . . we are trying to have a serious conversation and invite some intelligent argument. That kind of thing seems to be an attempt to distract the focus of the conversation. I see it for what it really is.

Do you really take yourself so seriously? You poor thing. Why would I distract the focus of the thread? The point was that reading your posts, they could have been written by Ralph. Same general type of outlook.

And to answer your question, chief....no....the point of being a student isn't to clone your teacher.

 

[r.severe]

Well Jay, you're being pretty rude.
Do you even know Ron sensei?
Why would you be so rude?

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

:idunno: Hmmmm, with my completely outsider perspective, it sems like you guys are going to run a lot of good people out of your organization. Why? Steve sensei seemed to say earlier that he had simply let his membership slide because he was busy.

But in
this post you said this,

But if you guys are going to get so bent out of shape about Ralph, why are you not also upset by others that ARE handing out BJK ranks but do not have the precious shioshikai card . . . if you are going to play Gestapo of the Bujinkan, you should be consistent and go after all those bad people . . . “I haven't been over to the Kutaki site for some time, as I have let lapse my Shidoshikai card...(beat me now...I have been busy!!)” (Steve Lefebvre, Airyu . . . from the thread “stick techniques”).

It is hardly consistent, and not very ethical, to first tell us that we should be going after Steve and then complain about how we are. It was your post talking about people who give out ranks in the Bujinkan despite not having a shidoshikai card and mentioning Steve's post that started me looking at the fact that he was using to Bujinkan symbol without being a current member for at least 6-7 months.

 

[KenpoTess]

MOD NOTE-

Guys.. This is getting totally silly.. Take the JUVENILE nonsense off line.. Topic is Ninjitsu Stick Techniques.. Keep it There~!!

~Tess
-MT S. MOD-



Non Mod Note-

:btg:

 

[ronhughen]

Ahhhh, gooood Mr. Roley (I don't know anything about you or your place in any organization . . . if you are a BJK-er, or what . . . you don't supply any info in your profile . . . so I don't really know who I am talking to . . .),

I was surely expecting somone to bring this up. I am aware of what I said earlier, but I did not say I thought it was a good idea, or ultimately a productive way of solving a problem to hassle people that way, just that if you were going to badger Ralph shihan, you should be consistant and badger the others as well. Are you aware of who the others are? Other than Ralph and Steve? . . . are you going to go after all of them? My actual attitude, if I were someone that COULD have any influence, would be rather than excomunicate them, I would encourange them to become current, or if they don't want to find out what they have on their minds . . . are their problems (and a senior member that decides to quit should be percived as a problem) . . . maybe there are some real issues and real solutions could come out of such a process. But, I'm a total outsider, so don't have any input with the "insiders" . . . I just see from the outside that there appear to be some problems . . . my experience with problems is that they are not usually one-sided. Everybody is different . . . especially here in the USA . . . and everyone has something to contribute to the whole . . . Ralph shihan and Steve sensei would not be the levels they are without having shown somone in power that they are actually really wonderful people. Are you going to investigate everybody that's late now and kick them all out?

One question I have is who are you to be such a cop "looking into" whether people are current or not? Like I said, I don't have any idea who I'm talking to. I also asked that if Steve sensei were to bring his dues current would he be considered totally legit again? If not, why not? (or worded another way . . . if he is out there being good, teaching good, doing good for the system, why would anybody want to just boot him out symply because he got behind on his dues?)

Even the IRS lets me pay my taxes late, I just get a little penalty.

Anybody want to get back to talking about sticks??

 

[Flatlander]

Sure! I just recieved my copy of Trankada, the Ties That Bind, by Senior Master Dan Anderson, which covers a multitude of Modern Arnis stick locking and trapping techniques, as well as a plethora of emptyhand locking techniques. On first glance, looks like a great book! It's not Ninjutsu, but it's stickwork.