Stick techniques

[[email protected]]

Hello Mr. Roley,

Although, I have lapsed in my Shidoshikai, that does not mean I do not practice what Hatsumi Soke teaches,or could ever let go of the past 15 years worth of training in Budo Taijutsu. I prepare my students and offer them the opportunity to receive rank through Japan if they wish it so. I am plain in my dealings with anyone who comes to my school or asks me any questions regarding my training or that of what teach. Just like I am writing to you and anyone else here on this forum.

As for Immoral, how can you teach me of morals? Morality is subjective belief system that is founded early in ones life. I founded my business quite a few years ago and it will not lapse until 2008(on a legal term that is), so I will continue on. At that time I will probably be changing the name to something else. It is not the name that attracts the majority of my students(most who call wonder what the hell it is, that I do teach), as I teach several programs of martial arts at the facility, it is the reputation for turning out good martial artists. I stay out of the politics between the rival groups and train with any and all of them (Jinkekan, Bujinkan, Genbukan).

I am not complaining, I made a statement that was all. Complaining would be a long run on about the evils of this or that, and I have no problems with many many people with in the Bujinkan, or even the material it contains. Many organizations have a similar problem of "rate of rise" in rank, the Bujinkan is not alone in this issue. What I came to discuss was the issue of "stick fighting" and I hope to continue on this subject and not turn this forum into a flame war. This does not help the arts in any manner and shows a lack of maturity in the people engaging in it.

Train Hard it is the Way.

Steven Lefebvre, Airyu

www.Bujinkandojo.net

 

[Dale Seago]

I prepare my students and offer them the opportunity to receive rank through Japan if they wish it so.

I feel the need to clarify that, as according to the Bujinkan Rules written by Hatsumi sensei you can't have their ranks registered in Japan:

2. All members must have a membership card for the year, issued by the Hombu. There are two types of membership card: General Membership Card, and Shidoshi-Kai Membership Card.

(i) The General Membership Card applies to members of the Bujinkan Dojo, whether ungraded, kyu-grade, or dan-grade.

(ii) The Shidoshi-Kai Membership Card applies to those of Fifth Dan and above (called Shidoshi) and those from First to Fourth Dan (called Shidoshi-ho). Members who are teaching should possess one of these cards. Non Shidoshi-kai members are not recognized as teachers and can not grade students.

. . .4. The yearly membership fee of the Shidoshi-kai is. . .to be paid by the end of January each year.

5. All memberships must be renewed every year.

6. Shidoshi-kai members must supply an up to date passport type photograph together with their yearly membership fee, for use in a projected Shidoshi-kai directory.

As for this part:

I stay out of the politics between the rival groups and train with any and all of them (Jinkekan, Bujinkan, Genbukan).

Training with the Genbukan and Jinenkan is specifically against the often-stated wishes of the Bujinkan Soke.

With people who claim Bujinkan affiliation behaving this way, if the Bujinkan as an "organization" has a poor reputation it shouldn't come as any surprise.

Okay, back to stick-fighting. . .

 

[[email protected]]

Hello Dale,

Yes, I am familiar with the rules, but I prepare my students for the testing and offer them the opportunity to (if they wish) to get rank under a certified Instructor, I did not say it was under me at this time. This has been done many times.

Also, yes I know of the cross training rule. Silly as it is to try and limit the education and exploration of one's students, some people still try to hold them back. Has it worked? Not really. At a Jinkenkan event, I counted ~7 active Bujinkan Members participating. At a Genbukan event, quite a few more!!

This thread is already being subverted into the political realm.........again!
Let's drop the political issues and try to learn from one another. I know it is difficult, but that is what we are here for.

So what other methods does everyone use to increase their stick fighting skill? Does anyone spar with the rokushakubo?

Train Hard it is the Way!
Steve Lefebvre, Airyu

 

[Dale Seago]

Yes, I am familiar with the rules, but I prepare my students for the testing and offer them the opportunity to (if they wish) to get rank under a certified Instructor, I did not say it was under me at this time. This has been done many times.

My apology, then, for jumping on you about that.

So what other methods does everyone use to increase their stick fighting skill? Does anyone spar with the rokushakubo?

Haven't done it with the rokushakubo, but we did do a bit with a "boffer" version of the jo back when that was the "weapon of the training year".

 

[ronhughen]

"So what other methods does everyone use to increase their stick fighting skill? Does anyone spar with the rokushakubo?"

:ultracool YES!! I love sparring with rokushakubo. Very enlightening. I like sparring with all different levels of intensity and protection. Without protection I can really show my students the importance of the hands as targets . . . I tend to continually tap their fingers when they are trying to do things . . . let them run their hands into my stick . . . it does not take them long to realize how easy it is to mess sombody up from a long, safe distance. ( . . . sparring with weapons in general is verrrrrrry fun, the senior student/teacher just has to control the situation . . . one of the best times is shinai on shinai, I think . . .)


:asian:Other training with the stick? . . . I like to hit things with the stick, not just the rokushakubo, but all sticks. I have a padded training dummy (basically a heavily padded post mounted in a large tub of concrete so it can actually wobble around and be a little bit . . . responsive . . . can be seen in the photo album of my website). I totally agree with the teaching of Ralph shihan that you cannot understand the way the stick works in a fight without hitting things with it. It is a completely different experience to actually make contact with something (especially something simialr to a body) than to just wave the stick around in the air. The proper movent dynamics in the gata become much more clear when you hit a target. Along those lines, sparrig helps me and my students understand the importance of moving the body around the stick more than the stick around the body . . .

"Silly as it is to try and limit the education and exploration of one's students, some people still try to hold them back. "

:idunno: I agree its silly to restrict a student's sources of study. Ralph shihan has always encouraged me to get involved with other things . . . other views of ninjutsu as well as other styles . . . he's always telling me to go take a judo class, and stuff like that (his "Art of Combat" style exemplifies that attitude). I think if we are searching for the truth we must seek multiple viewpoints . . . everyone, even Hatsumi sensei, expresses things their own way, and everyone recieves and interprets things their own way, so the more viewpoints we have the better chance we have of gaining understanding . . . of realizing the truth . . . aren't they all sort of different pathways to the top of the same mountain, really?

 

[ronhughen]

Haven't done it with the rokushakubo, but we did do a bit with a "boffer" version of the jo back when that was the "weapon of the training year".

Dale shihan,

Are you saying that in all your MANY years of training you have never sparred with a rokushakubo? That would really surprise me! I would have thought it would have been a normal part of training for someone at your level. My experiences have included sparring in all capacities from the begining.

Do you do much sparring or randori using techniques/weapons from any of the ryuha?

 

[Dale Seago]

Actually I may have. . .I have with naginata. . .but I don't specifically recall doing so with rokushakubo. My own dojo's training focuses almost entirely on whatever is being covered/emphasized in Japan in any given year: I, other teachers in the area, and many of our students go over at various times during the year, so we have pretty constant input of things to catch up on.

 

[r.severe]

Ron Sensei, Steve sensei,
Not many that have ranking or even high ranking in the Bujinkan have sparring experience with unarmed foes. Now much less weaponry.
This goes back to the old saying..
You can have concepts about swimming... all you want on dry land..
But until you get into the water.. well...?
Don't confess to have experience in swimming or teach it.

The simple truth is...
You cannot pass on combative methods without first experiencing combative conflicts..
This is bujutsu... NOT budo.

Hey... it's the truth.

Steve sensei was experiencing stick sparring, that's baton, rokushkubo, stick and shield, rope with a weight, etc.. back in the early 90's with me... then came Ron sensei.. so.. these two sensei talk from experience.. at lease with sparring experience... I respect that in a sensei who doesn't talk without it.

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[ronhughen]

Yes, back when I first started training ninjutsu with Brian Koman sensei I was also training at Okinawan shorin Ryu karate and kabudo, and my sensei and I were sparring all the time with all kinds of weapons . . . long bo, sai, tonfa . . . when I was a green belt. One of his senior students and I would go backpacking and we would play around with long bo sparring on a rocky mountainside . . WHAT FUN THAT WAS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ronhughen]

I, other teachers in the area, and many of our students go over at various times during the year, so we have pretty constant input of things to catch up on.

So, what kind of sparring is incorporated into the training in Japan?

 

[Dale Seago]

My experiences have included sparring in all capacities from the begining.

Same here, including fifteen years' worth before I got into the Bujinkan.

These days I have enough challenges with my job.

(BTW, the guy standing in this photo has worked with me, sometimes for me, on a number of operations.)

If you want to go to Iraq or a few other hotspots we're involved with and have the right background, we're currently paying $10,000 to $20,000 per month.

 

[ronhughen]

You can have concepts about swimming... all you want on dry land..
But until you get into the water.. well...?

A referesnce to Robert Lane sensei??

 

[ronhughen]

(BTW, the guy standing in this photo has worked with me, sometimes for me, on a number of operations.)

Wow! What a coincidence . . . the guy I used to spar with on the mountainsides was also named David anderson . . . except I think he is now a Rishi (spelling?) master, and has nothing to do with fightiing . . .

If you want to go to Iraq or a few other hotspots we're involved with and have the right background, we're currently paying $10,000 to $20,000 per month.

Well, thanks for the offer, but I am makig almost that much in a nice safe lab research job . . . life right here at home is quite dangerous enough . . . thank you.

 

[r.severe]

I have known a LOT of people who have traveled to Japan to train or meet with the Japanese masters of the Bujinkan and as well with the soke.
They didn't encounter sparring or even knew of anyone who has while in Japan other than Muramatsu shihan. His Dojo was packed with pads and sparirng equipment.

Yes yes.. I know Nagato shihan did in his youth too.
I believe most Japanese spar in Judo as a youth during school.
Some even in kendo.
I know the karate systems of many that spar.
But the Bujinkan members there?
Not to my knowledge.

I found that making hanbo, rokushakubo, tanbo, etc.. is easy.. I found how to make the best for sparring with stick.
I wouldn't use PVC...
I did as a youth..(13 or so)..]
I use bamboo as the core.. for hanbo as well as other plastic.. like delrin or lexan. Hey even nylon.
I always cover them with 18 oz vylon too. They last and last. I have a few sets than have been used for the past 9 years. They look and feel very good from beating they so much on armor and bodies.
Outside the tradition gata and such.....
In my new series of DVDs I will cover sparring with weaponry and unarmed.. should be funny..

I have sets of kendo armor now that student wear to attack me in randori.. I get to beat them up a great deal.. but it's safe and I can go 75 to 80%.. full speed..
Experience counts..

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[ronhughen]

I got some six-foot bamboo poles at the garden center ealrlier in the year . . . they are great for sparing . . . kinda light and controlled . . . they are very light and don't really cause injury, but can hurt . . . they also break kinda easy . . . but they only cost 3 bucks each!

 

[Jay Bell]

Whoa! Ralph has a Mini-Me!

 

[ronhughen]

I suppose everyone is mini comparred to Ralph, eh?

 

[ronhughen]

Isn't that what a student actually is?

 

[Cryozombie]

Same here, including fifteen years' worth before I got into the Bujinkan.

These days I have enough challenges with my job.

(BTW, the guy standing in this photo has worked with me, sometimes for me, on a number of operations.)

If you want to go to Iraq or a few other hotspots we're involved with and have the right background, we're currently paying $10,000 to $20,000 per month.

Really? What is "The Right background"?

 

[r.severe]

Whoa! Ralph has a Mini-Me!

Now now Jay.. don't be rude.
I would not lower Ron sensei to my level.
Ron sensei is way to smart and educated to compare to me.
I personally feel lucky to have a friend as well as a student as Ron sensei.

ralph severe, kamiyama