Sport vs. Street

[Steve]

Can someone sum up where we're at? What have we actually figured out? this thread has ranged all over.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

Those kicks are exclusive to TKD only?

The problem I see with this is that techies are inspired or influenced by other things. Even Kung Fu as parts where they took inspiration from animals and drunkards.

 

[FriedRice]

The problem I see with this is that techies are inspired or influenced by other things. Even Kung Fu as parts where they took inspiration from animals and drunkards.

The main point was, no credible TKD Instructor would say something like...."now I want you to TKD kick him"....or "Judo throw him"....while coaching a fight, etc.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If that one guy hangs back, your team would be 4 vs. 5 of theirs at the START. 1 of your guys would be immediately double teamed and clobbered.

Your 1 guy that hangs back to suckerpunch that first, 1 on 1, pair....OK, maybe....but then it's still 4 on 4 now since for that 1 guy of yours to hang back.....he left your 1 guy having to take on 2 of theirs at the start.

You would actually want one of your guys to get doubled team so that you can come around the side to land attacks to the flank. If you keep the formation tight then it will force your opponent to get tighter with their formation. The tight formations would interfere with their ability to attack, the tight formation will also help insure that the double team will occur on the outside. This would allow someone to take the flank and strike without resistance on one of the guys doing the double team.

Fighting 1 vs 1 can take on sports fighting 5 vs 5 you can start using old military tactics.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Depends on your environment. Inner city or the middle class suburbs....or nice rich areas where the cops get there in under 5 minutes rather than 2 hours or the next day....this happened for real in Detroit...some lady was getting home invaded...she heard them from upstairs....called the cops and they came by the next day to check up on her (or to see if they needed to remove her body). What about maximum security prison? You have to take a shower sometime. I went to high school in North Philly, de-escalation is not always the best choice. Sometimes you do need to risk getting slashed. Plenty of knives & guns to go around. It's apart of life there.

You missed the point of CB's post, I think. He didn't say "de-escalate until they kill you". He said de-escalation was the best option until it wasn't an option. You are listing situations where it is likely not an option, and that's something we all recognize happens.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But isn't Seymore's, real self defense, is to tell your lady friend to put her breastesses back in their holsters, and get the hell outta there?

Strawman much? Go back and point out to me where I said anything ever remotely close to that. Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's ignorant.

Again, you give no point to back up a trolling statement. The technique appears in both arts. To a Judo player, it's a Judo throw. To me, it's an NGA throw, and so on to each art. It is, in fact, all of those. You claiming it's ignorant doesn't change the reality.

Now, if you care to support your statement with something beyond insults, I'm happy to understand where you're coming from. Otherwise, you're just trollin'.

 

[Buka]

Can someone sum up where we're at? What have we actually figured out? this thread has ranged all over.

Glad to help you out, bro. Here's where we are at -

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The main point was, no credible TKD Instructor would say something like...."now I want you to TKD kick him"....or "Judo throw him"....while coaching a fight, etc.

And nobody here said they would. Someone referred to a TKD kick, which everyone here (yourself included, though you pretend otherwise) understands to mean a kick from the repertoire within TKD.

 

[Steve]

Glad to help you out, bro. Here's where we are at -

View attachment 20488

hey. Well. At least we can all agree on the meaning of snowflake.

And that there are at least ten techniques one could have in mind when saying "tkd kick."

 

[drop bear]

hey. Well. At least we can all agree on the meaning of snowflake.

And that there are at least ten techniques one could have in mind when saying "tkd kick."

I already listed all ten.

 

[JP3]

Those kicks are exclusive to TKD only?

With their Korean names, some of them might bee, but I doubt it. Is that the beef, that someone called those kicks TKD kicks when Hapkido, Tang Soo Do, Hwarang Do, etc to name some KMA and I expect several are used in Savate, some in Karate etc... all use similar kicks?

So... Nomenclature offends you? Really? "A rose by any other name" and all that. Sheesh, you wasted all these people's life minutes with that? No wonder nobody was understanding what you were objecting to. I agree with you, giving something a style name before the technique name does not make it original, or the property of that stye. There you go. As I said, I figured I'd agree with the concept... but I'm surprised you feel so strongly about it.

Let me help you before you go "full retard". Main point = Punching someone really, really hard in the face...works just the same in the streets as it does in the ring...therefore, who's going to be better at this in both occasions? Someone who fights in the ring and spars somewhat regularly at up to full power (by trying to KO their partners) and also (but more) at light & medium power.....or someone who only spars at tip-tap to light power only...and with a mega-ton of various scenarios for all occasions.

And as I figured, agreed here again. The more you do a thing, the mo betta ya get at it. However, you can't just leap from that to the premise of your O/P, as it sidesteps the issue of the street Not being "the same" as sport training. Skills may cross genere, sure, but the environment and lack of rule can change things a lot.



And Steve said, "Snowflakes is a reference to everyone wanting to be special and unique." And we got that explanatory origin reference from Fight Club.

 

[FriedRice]

The problem I see with this is that techies are inspired or influenced by other things. Even Kung Fu as parts where they took inspiration from animals and drunkards.

The main point being, only someone ignorant would use this terminology. A coach is not going to advise his fighter between rounds to to go do a "TKD kick" or "Judo throw" the other guy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The main point being, only someone ignorant would use this terminology. A coach is not going to advise his fighter between rounds to to go do a "TKD kick" or "Judo throw" the other guy.

No, it's actually a common usage. If I suggest there are Judo throws that can accomplish what someone asks about, nobody is confused about what that means.

 

[FriedRice]

You would actually want one of your guys to get doubled team so that you can come around the side to land attacks to the flank.

I've fought like this in gang rumbles before, on a field when I was young. We were very aware and cautious of getting jumped from behind. But it does happen....also it was more than 5 on 5, so very chaotic. And we were just dumb kids, w/o any training other than street Boxing and watching movies.

I also spar 1 on 2 and 1 on 3 at this one Krav Maga gym, but only at medium power. With training and sparring vs. these Krav Cats, my skills have increased quite significantly....and I don't spar that much with them. Now imagine these guys, who specifically train for this as their freakin', organized sport. I bet that their awareness is of getting suckeredpunch is way above my level.

If you keep the formation tight then it will force your opponent to get tighter with their formation. The tight formations would interfere with their ability to attack, the tight formation will also help insure that the double team will occur on the outside. This would allow someone to take the flank and strike without resistance on one of the guys doing the double team.

Fighting 1 vs 1 can take on sports fighting 5 vs 5 you can start using old military tactics.

Something tells me that they know this also but elect to go 1-1 because it's too much of a risk doing what you suggest. The fight that I posted on post #1, only lasted 44 seconds? And this was 1-1 X 5. Once you lose a teammate through KO or even tapout, it's game over when the extra guy gangs up on 2-1. It seems too easy to KO your 1 guy, 2-1. They're not going to be dummies and let your 1 guy hang back and sneak up on them easily. By then, your 1 on 2, is probably KO'ed and now that 1 that hung back, is dealing vs. 2.

 

[FriedRice]

You missed the point of CB's post, I think. He didn't say "de-escalate until they kill you". He said de-escalation was the best option until it wasn't an option. You are listing situations where it is likely not an option, and that's something we all recognize happens.

Well I wasn't disagreeing completely with him. I just said that it depends on one's environment. If I were in a wealthy area, I'd call the cops and get names of the witnesses. In the inner cities, it's more often than not that you should fight to earn and gain respect. If some dude grabbed my girl's boob and I let that go, then I would be made a B.

 

[FriedRice]

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[FriedRice]

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[Gerry Seymour]

So you instruct your students to do a "Judo throw"?

Actually, I have. You see, I don't teach Judo. But every now and then, I teach them a throw I learned in Judo, and I might tell them, "Here's a Judo throw that works nicely with what we've been working on."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Then you're equally ignorant because credible TKD instructors wouldn't say, "TKD Kick".

Do you coach your students to "Akido lock his butt out" or "Steven Seagal him"?

You aren't listening at all, are you?