Sport vs. Street

[FriedRice]

Then can you please explain what a "TDK kick" is? Because right now my understanding is that it is a kick that is learned while learning Tea Kwan Do. If you are referring to something else, than please explain.

Not sure where you're training TKD, but I doubt that a credible TKD instructor ever told you that something's a "TKD Kick" just like a Karate instructor wouldn't say, "Karate Kick".

 

[Steve]

Then can you please explain what a "TDK kick" is? Because right now my understanding is that it is a kick that is learned while learning Tea Kwan Do. If you are referring to something else, than please explain.

Sorry, but Tea Kwan Do is too awesome to pass up. I found a rare image of a Tea Kwan Do master executing a TKD Kick:

 

[FriedRice]

Sorry, but Tea Kwan Do is too awesome to pass up. I found a rare image of a Tea Kwan Do master executing a TKD Kick:

He hates these tea sets:

 

[Martial_Kumite]

Not sure where you're training TKD, but I doubt that a credible TKD instructor ever told you that something's a "TKD Kick" just like a Karate instructor wouldn't say, "Karate Kick".

I simply understand that a TKD kick is a kick (front, back, side etc.) that is taught by a Tae Kwon Do instructor, based off of what you have described. If this is not true, then PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT A TKD KICK is to you.

At least then I will have some idea of what you are talking about when you say "TKD Kick".

Thank you

 

[FriedRice]

I simply understand that a TKD kick is a kick (front, back, side etc.) that is taught by a Tae Kwon Do instructor, based off of what you have described. If this is not true, then PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT A TKD KICK is to you.

At least then I will have some idea of what you are talking about when you say "TKD Kick".

Thank you

I was quoting what that other guy said about something being a "TKD kick" and how that's ignorant to say such.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No, you changed your position after I kept calling you out on it. You were making absolute statements. And now you're copying my "final authority" line. Feel free to do so, because flattery will you everywhere with me.

Actually I wasn't copying your line. I was pointing out that you were doing what you claimed I was doing. You were making yourself the final authority on what my statement implies.

And, no, I didn't change my position. My position is as it was. I've tried to clarify the (perhaps overly simple) original statement by describing the concept.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Like I said, that's your definition of SD. If your idea is to always run away ASAP, then that's fine. Some people don't run and chose to defend themselves in other ways.

Agreed.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

List 10 "TKD Kicks".

I don't practice TKD, so I don't know the names. Folks who practice TKD do, however. I could name you 10 kicks from NGA, if that will make you happy.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

I was what that other guy said about something being a "TKD kick" and how that's ignorant to say such.

Thank you. That Is all that you needed to say.
Anyway, the thread was confusing around when you mentioned the TKD kick (as in reference to what the other guy said). I thought you were agreeing with the guy on the "TKD kick" comment, and when you later called people being ignorant, it just came off wrong. Please be patient with me, I can only understand so much. I apologize for miss understanding what you trying to say.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was quoting what that other guy said about something being a "TKD kick" and how that's ignorant to say such.

And he is pointing out that he disagrees about that being ignorant. Most people I know would understand a TKD kick to be a kick taught/learned as a part of TKD training. Not sure why that's so hard to grasp.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

Punching someone really, really hard in the face to knock them the F out, works just the same in the street as it does in the ring.

With this, I agree. Then, I would bring up the point that an MA background/training can make it more effective, with less needed energy to render someone ko'ed.

 

[FriedRice]

Actually I wasn't copying your line. I was pointing out that you were doing what you claimed I was doing. You were making yourself the final authority on what my statement implies.

Actually, that sounds exactly like copying, but it's ok, I'm fine with it.

And, no, I didn't change my position. My position is as it was. I've tried to clarify the (perhaps overly simple) original statement by describing the concept.

You said, "no", "not SD". This is absolute.

 

[FriedRice]

And he is pointing out that he disagrees about that being ignorant. Most people I know would understand a TKD kick to be a kick taught/learned as a part of TKD training. Not sure why that's so hard to grasp.

List 10 TKD kicks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Punching someone really, really hard in the face to knock them the F out, works just the same in the street as it does in the ring.

Agreed, assuming the person training for the ring doesn't always train with gloves and wrist wraps. A boxer, for instance, who is accustomed to only hitting hard with boxing gloves (I should think that would be pretty rare, but I'm not familiar with their training norms) might deliver a punch that damages his hand. This becomes less likely with the smaller MMA gloves, but I'd expect there's still a need to train hard hitting without the padding, for safety (MMA folks can give a better view on that - I haven't ever trained in MMA gloves).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Actually, that sounds exactly like copying, but it's ok, I'm fine with it.



You said, "no", "not SD". This is absolute.

I still don't think it was SD. That hasn't changed. What I've tried to clarify is how I make that determination, and that is not an absolute thing - there's a continuum, with several factors, all of which have some potential grey areas. There are some elements of defense in that one instance, but I wouldn't call it self-defense.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

List 10 TKD kicks.

Are you stuck on that? I already answered that, as did someone else.

 

[Jenna]

This thread may contain allergens

 

[drop bear]

Agreed, assuming the person training for the ring doesn't always train with gloves and wrist wraps. A boxer, for instance, who is accustomed to only hitting hard with boxing gloves (I should think that would be pretty rare, but I'm not familiar with their training norms) might deliver a punch that damages his hand. This becomes less likely with the smaller MMA gloves, but I'd expect there's still a need to train hard hitting without the padding, for safety (MMA folks can give a better view on that - I haven't ever trained in MMA gloves).

volume and intensity.

The people who train bare knuckle train different exercises. So you don't generally see 10 rounds of sparring or heavy bag bare knuckle from anybody.

Bare knuckle fighters dont do it.

Hitting a guy for ten or fifteen seconds in the street is not hitting a guy for half an hour.

It is a pretty silly difference that people came up with having no real idea what they were on about.

One of those stories. I keep mentioning.

Now. should you condition your hands? Yes.
Should you punch in a correct manner? yes.

But this is for both bare knuckle and gloved.

Should you just throw away hand protection and then train like a boxer?

 

[drop bear]

List 10 TKD kicks.

flippy kick.
spinning flippy kick.
flippy body head kick.
jumpy leapy kick.
spinny jumpy leaping flippy kick.
lou kang kick.
All of those flippy kicks but done with the heel.
Groin stomp
Standing groin stomp
Groin re stomp

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=838241926316714

 

[drop bear]

I'm missing the connection between this post and the one you quoted, DB. I'm just now having coffee, so it might be my sleepy brain. So, if my reply isn't to what you wanted me to get from that, help me out.

My approach to violence on the street is that there's a chance it will turn deadly, whether the attacker intends it so or not. There are safeties in place in sport, and things still turn deadly on very rare occasions there. Getting knocked down on the street, there are hard objects to hit a head on. You don't really know the intention of the attacker. If they want to hurt you, they may not be good enough at it to avoid killing you by accident. Thus, every incidence of street violence has to be treated as something potentially deadly until the moment when that potential appears to no longer exist. That moment is reached when the attacker actively disengages, flees, is subdued, or is otherwise unable to attack...and the area is clear of anyone who appears to support them.

That, however, is not only true of self-defense situations. Let's say I'm in a bar, and some goober (thanks for putting that word back in my vocabulary, by the way) thinks I've been eyeing "his girl" all night. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't - doesn't really matter. He comes over and starts talking ****. He's saying he's gonna kick my *** and show me how to respect a man. I'm done with my beer, it's getting late, and I could just leave. He's only in the monkey dance stage, and isn't really showing signs of being ready to start hitting (of course, I'm on the ready, just in case). So, the easiest self-defense thing would be to leave. But I decide not to. I step to him and mouth off back, telling him she'd probably appreciate him doing that, so "his girl" can see what it looks like when a real man uses him to clean the floors. Now he's not just monkey dancing - he's enraged. We end up - predictably - in a fight. That's not self-defense, but I'd have to treat it as a potentially deadly situation, because he might be mad and/or stupid enough to take it there, or he might just do the wrong thing and hurt me that badly.

Ok. definitely enhanced risk in a street fight.

And avoid them obviously.

But going straught to shanking a dude because all street fights are kill or be killed. Sorry but just no. That was oaktrees origional premis. Showed a video of a guy getting shanked in a fight.

Now Friedrice has turned around and said here are heaps of fights where guys are not getting shanked. Which to me was a fair point.

And then you jumped in and said it didn't count because of the self defence difference.

It seemed a trumped up difference. which self defence gets used for a lot. Especially when you are the sole diviner of what self defence actually is.(also gets used a lot)

My view is if self defence is used as an argument it should actually apply to the topic. And not be a catch all comment.


Regarding going full retard in a fight.

You can't justify it legally. You cant justify it ethically. And considering most fights don't end in a death. It really only escalalates the problem.

There is definitely a risk in a street fight. But they are mitigated by avoiding them. Finishing them quickly and fighting conservatively. More than just knifing everybody.