Sport vs. Street

[Gerry Seymour]

No. In regards to what the video and post that was trying to point out that a whole bunch of real fights that people dont die and don't kill.

Kill or be killed in the street may happen but it is only the norm if you choose to make it so.

That is where you made the distinction between self defence and mutually agreed fights.

So the distinction should effect that situation.

I'm missing the connection between this post and the one you quoted, DB. I'm just now having coffee, so it might be my sleepy brain. So, if my reply isn't to what you wanted me to get from that, help me out.

My approach to violence on the street is that there's a chance it will turn deadly, whether the attacker intends it so or not. There are safeties in place in sport, and things still turn deadly on very rare occasions there. Getting knocked down on the street, there are hard objects to hit a head on. You don't really know the intention of the attacker. If they want to hurt you, they may not be good enough at it to avoid killing you by accident. Thus, every incidence of street violence has to be treated as something potentially deadly until the moment when that potential appears to no longer exist. That moment is reached when the attacker actively disengages, flees, is subdued, or is otherwise unable to attack...and the area is clear of anyone who appears to support them.

That, however, is not only true of self-defense situations. Let's say I'm in a bar, and some goober (thanks for putting that word back in my vocabulary, by the way) thinks I've been eyeing "his girl" all night. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't - doesn't really matter. He comes over and starts talking ****. He's saying he's gonna kick my *** and show me how to respect a man. I'm done with my beer, it's getting late, and I could just leave. He's only in the monkey dance stage, and isn't really showing signs of being ready to start hitting (of course, I'm on the ready, just in case). So, the easiest self-defense thing would be to leave. But I decide not to. I step to him and mouth off back, telling him she'd probably appreciate him doing that, so "his girl" can see what it looks like when a real man uses him to clean the floors. Now he's not just monkey dancing - he's enraged. We end up - predictably - in a fight. That's not self-defense, but I'd have to treat it as a potentially deadly situation, because he might be mad and/or stupid enough to take it there, or he might just do the wrong thing and hurt me that badly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What would you call the class that people go to to learn MMA though?

So far, I've referred to it as "training for MMA", or even "MMA training", unless it's divided into styles (you know, like the gyms that have a Muay Thai class, then a BJJ class, etc.).

 

[Martial_Kumite]

So, let's just say that HYPOTHEDICLY, you end up in some sort of combative situation where you have to keep harm from happening to you (or friend, wife, etc.).

Would it be effective to have an MA background, and would that background be effective in subduing/defending/protecting yourself in combative situations?

If not, Why? If it is, Why?

(I am using Combative loosely to describe a situation where blows are, or have the potential to be, exchanged.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So, let's just say that HYPOTHEDICLY, you end up in some sort of combative situation where you have to keep harm from happening to you (or friend, wife, etc.).

Would it be effective to have an MA background, and would that background be effective in subduing/defending/protecting yourself in combative situations?

If not, Why? If it is, Why?

(I am using Combative loosely to describe a situation where blows are, or have the potential to be, exchanged.)

Would it be helpful? As long as you realistically know what you have learned (Steve makes a good point about what you have really learned vs. what you think you learned), any training should be helpful. Even training for very light point sparring teaches you better movement than not doing it, so long as you don't think that it has trained you in the dynamics of a real altercation.

Would it be effective? That depends upon the specific training, as well as your personal ability to execute (will you freeze, engage, etc.).

 

[jobo]

So, let's just say that HYPOTHEDICLY, you end up in some sort of combative situation where you have to keep harm from happening to you (or friend, wife, etc.).

Would it be effective to have an MA background, and would that background be effective in subduing/defending/protecting yourself in combative situations?

If not, Why? If it is, Why?

(I am using Combative loosely to describe a situation where blows are, or have the potential to be, exchanged.)

hi I'm new here, been following this thread, so I though id join in!
its not an easy question to answer as its to generic, if you are a roughly the same fitness level( or better) as you attacker , you ma training will be extremely usefull. If on the other hand your attacker is substantially stronger, faster with better cardio, coordination and balance etc. Then your training might limit the damage done to you or it might not. If he has more power, but you have more endurance cardio and coordination then it would be an interesting contest. Dependent. On how good your skills are
The belief prevalent in some dojos that skills alone will allow you to defend yourselves with out a good standard of fitness is misplaced .
The answer is a) only get in fight with people in worse Shape than you or b) be extremely fit so that you have an advantage over most people c) have a knock out punch

 

[Tez3]

Some people think they are hard because they have fitness and/or training in some fighting style, they think they are hard because they've had some fight 'on the street' as opposed to competitive fights. They aren't however particularly hard and aren't actually to be feared. The ones you have to watch are the ones who really don't care what happens either to themselves or others. The ones who are basically 'mental' as we say here. They will beat you up without compunction, they have no stopping point because they simply don't five a monkey's.
How Lenny McLean became the hardest man in Britain
‘Mad’ Frankie Fraser: original hardman who loved to cause panic

There's plenty around with these men's mentality, (I know at least two MMA fighters like this one luckily is in a North Africa prison, he also inherited the Kray's 'patch' clues for you), the other is an early UFC fighter) most don't get the publicity these did but they are out there and if you think you can take them on, that you are harder than them well, I hope you have got will written up.

 

[Grenadier]

Admin's Note:

Keep things civil, and on-topic, folks. This is your only warning.

 

[Steve]

You on one as well?

I don't understand the question. Am I on one what?

 

[FriedRice]

Well, you phrased the question weirdly. But some TKD kicks do work, it is just TKD is stereotyped for its flashy kicks, but they do have some that are simple and work. The video I posted is an example of this.

You're like the other guy then. You're both ignorant as there's no such thing.

 

[FriedRice]

Frried Rice, I am smelling an agenda here. I've been in about a hundred street fights, won nearly all, as winning is defined, been marked in nearly all, and nope, never had to maim anyone, but I've been in group fights wehre people have been badly maimed, i.e. the kick to the knee causing reversal of the joint, elbow and shoulder dislocations and a cracked skull one time.

That stuff just doesn't happen at the rate in sport matches as in the real world. But, feel free to go ahead and pound your drum, it's OK. I can see the point of view, trying to raise the "realism" in what you do, or what you like to watch, I'm just not into it the same way any longer.

Maybe I'm old.

I've been in street fights and gang rumbles too, big deal. I don't think you understand the point.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

I've been in street fights and gang rumbles too, big deal. You obviously don't understand the point.

Then you please restate, or further describe the point you are trying to get across. This thread has gotten a little confusing.

You're like the other guy then. You're both ignorant as there's no such thing.

Then Could you please explain your interpretation of what happened in the video that I posted with the TKD champion disabling an aggressor? I would like to hear your explanation of that scenario. Just so I can see where your thought prosses is.

Thank you

 

[FriedRice]

Yeah training for a world where every fight can kill you makes you dangerous. luckily the people you are fighting probably can't fight very well so you don't have to train very hard.

Especially when it time to pressure test these dangerous tactical real life training, it's tip tap time all day, because most of the people there have had hip replacements and can't risk it. When you train at the gym, to tap someone to death in real life,.....how would it translate to the real world? Maybe like this:

 

[FriedRice]

Mmm, one does not advertise one skills. At the risk of the moderators ire, you sir are what we call in the UK, a grade A bell end. Each to their own, but when you get some hurt, don't start crying when you get hurt. Because frankly, you're **** is going to get fried with that attitude.

Especially when you advertise about that "TKD kick"

 

[FriedRice]

I would like to add that I never referenced anything. Perhaps you slow down a tad, and remember what you type.

Shame shame. That's a fib.

 

[FriedRice]

No, it doesn't imply that. It means I don't agree that it's self-defense. Or, are you the final authority on what something implies?

No, you changed your position after I kept calling you out on it. You were making absolute statements. And now you're copying my "final authority" line. Feel free to do so, because flattery will you everywhere with me.

 

[FriedRice]

That's one of those grey areas I talked about. If you take a single instance, it isn't self-defense if they could reasonably escape, but don't. In the view of ongoing violence, it might actually be safer in some cases to engage, since escaping the instance doesn't escape the situation.

Like I said, that's your definition of SD. If your idea is to always run away ASAP, then that's fine. Some people don't run and chose to defend themselves in other ways.

 

[FriedRice]

But it's not. There is an art called Tae Kwon Do. They have kicks. Those kicks can be fairly referred to as "TKD kicks". UFC is a competition. Nobody can train "in" it - it's just not grammatically correct, since UFC isn't a style - though they can train "for" it. (Mind you, "MMA" is starting to be referred to as a style by some, in spite of the origin of the term itself, so someone could reasonably claim to "train in MMA"...though the usage bugs me.)

List 10 "TKD Kicks".

 

[Martial_Kumite]

List 10 "TKD Kicks"

Front kick
Back kick
roundhouse kick
Hook kick
axe kick
backspin kick
jump backspin kick
sidekick kick
jump side kick
Cresent (Inside/outside) kick
Jump back kick

And here are some more Tae Kwon Do kicks

List of Korean Names for Taekwondo Kicks - Taekwondo Animals
Taekwondo Animals: List of Korean Names for Taekwondo Kicks

 

[FriedRice]

Then you please restate, or further describe the point you are trying to get across. This thread has gotten a little confusing.

Punching someone really, really hard in the face to knock them the F out, works just the same in the street as it does in the ring.

Then Could you please explain your interpretation of what happened in the video that I posted with the TKD champion disabling an aggressor? I would like to hear your explanation of that scenario. Just so I can see where your thought prosses is.

Thank you

Well at least you stopped calling that kick in the video that you posted, a "TKD Kick"...so we are getting somewhere. But what else is there to say about that video? Some girl, front kicked an abusive dude in his sternum and he dropped. Good for her. If she trained TKD, that's good for her too. You're welcome.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

Well at least you stopped calling that kick in the video that you posted, a "TKD Kick"...so we are getting somewhere. But what else is there to say about that video? Some girl, front kicked an abusive dude in his sternum and he dropped. Good for her. If she trained TKD, that's good for her too.

Then can you please explain what a "TDK kick" is? Because right now my understanding is that it is a kick that is learned while learning Tea Kwan Do. If you are referring to something else, than please explain.