Spinning Hook Kick - Foot First or Hip First?

[skribs]

My Master and one of the senior students at my school have different ways of doing the spinning hook kick. This senior student has a similar amount of martial arts training as my Master. The main reason he isn't as high rank in Taekwondo is because he bounced around to different schools while in the military. He's done a wide variety of arts. He's also been held back in Taekwondo progression because every time he joins a new school, he has to start over on learning the curriculum. He is tied with me as the highest ranked student under my Master. Where I have a better grasp on my Master's curriculum than he does, he has probably thrice my experience in martial arts.

Foot First: My Master's method of doing the spinning hook kick is very similar to a back kick. The only difference is what your kicking foot does when it's halfway to the target - does it continue straight back for a back kick, or does it whip around for the hook kick? This method of doing the hook kick definitely has some advantages. It's faster, and it's fired from a more stable base.

Hip First: My fellow student's method is a little bit different. His kick is to turn towards your opponent, like you're doing a turning side kick. The hip points towards the target, you turn enough to spot the target, and then your body pulls the foot through. Pulling is generally stronger than pushing, so this method feels like it can get a lot more power once you've turned. It's also easier to spot your target.

Both of us are currently using my Master's style of kicking, because "When in Rome..." However, I am planning on moving in a couple of years, at which point I want to find my own style. So I want to get some other opinions on how you do spinning hook kicks.

Note: it may seem like I'm doubting everything my Master teaches by making these posts. In reality, I agree with 95% of what he teaches, and question the other 5%. I just don't have a reason to post questions the other 95%.

 

[Jaeimseu]

We use the term “back hook kick,” although we teach a sidekick style chamber position. Our initial turning of the back and pivot of the feet is identical for back kick and back hook kick. For back hook kick, the knee is then raised with the hip of the kicking leg pointing in the direction of the target along with the bottom of the kicking foot. The foot is then extended out next to the target. As the leg and hip reaches full extension, the leg/hip hooks in a whipping motion as the foot strikes the target. We emphasize the knee moving across through the target as contact is made. There is some counter rotation with the arms. The foot can then be placed down in front, or it can be returned to the original position.


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[drop bear]

What are their reasons for the variation?

 

[Hanshi]

In any turning kick I taught "head turns first" then hip with leg whip.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I practice, use, and teach both. Specifically because (as you noted) there are pros and cons to each.
Your masters method is faster, and it's easier to maintain your balance. Because You're more vertical. When you swing the leg out to whip it, that pulls more to the side. Because centripetal force.
Whipping the leg is slower, harder to balance, but generates more power.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What are their reasons for the variation?

For

power - your body pull your leg.
speed - your body chase your leg.

when you ty to

- hit a baseball, your body rotate first, your arms follow.
- kill a fly, your hands go first, your body then follow.

 

[dvcochran]

My Master and one of the senior students at my school have different ways of doing the spinning hook kick. This senior student has a similar amount of martial arts training as my Master. The main reason he isn't as high rank in Taekwondo is because he bounced around to different schools while in the military. He's done a wide variety of arts. He's also been held back in Taekwondo progression because every time he joins a new school, he has to start over on learning the curriculum. He is tied with me as the highest ranked student under my Master. Where I have a better grasp on my Master's curriculum than he does, he has probably thrice my experience in martial arts.

Foot First: My Master's method of doing the spinning hook kick is very similar to a back kick. The only difference is what your kicking foot does when it's halfway to the target - does it continue straight back for a back kick, or does it whip around for the hook kick? This method of doing the hook kick definitely has some advantages. It's faster, and it's fired from a more stable base.

Hip First: My fellow student's method is a little bit different. His kick is to turn towards your opponent, like you're doing a turning side kick. The hip points towards the target, you turn enough to spot the target, and then your body pulls the foot through. Pulling is generally stronger than pushing, so this method feels like it can get a lot more power once you've turned. It's also easier to spot your target.

Both of us are currently using my Master's style of kicking, because "When in Rome..." However, I am planning on moving in a couple of years, at which point I want to find my own style. So I want to get some other opinions on how you do spinning hook kicks.

Note: it may seem like I'm doubting everything my Master teaches by making these posts. In reality, I agree with 95% of what he teaches, and question the other 5%. I just don't have a reason to post questions the other 95%.

It is one of the kicks with a literal and figuratively correct name. Lay a fish hook on the ground and this is the trajectory of the kick. The early part of the kick is linear; it does not go wide the way some wheel kicks are thrown. It can and will 'pull' an opponents head back toward you. Much harder to do with a spinning component.
For the most part I think your hip first analogy is most correct. There will always be some quirky anatomical differences especially when spinning.
One of the common but major issues I see is dragging the standing heel or not rotating it enough. Much of this comes with not using/powering the shoulder rotation. To a reasonable degree this will lead everything with the exception of the head turn; that is a major difference in the hook and the wheel kick in some situations such at when falling away.

For most people learning with the second set of instructions is easier because it can be broken down into specific movements.