Spinning heel kick vs spinning hook kick

[gyoja]

Yes, I've got a few combos that I can to reasonably. And of course some combos work with both back kick, turning side kick or spinning wheel, depending on target and opponent stance. The main purpose of my spinning wheel kick is the legs. Wheel kick to the liver is very hight change of getting the leg trapped (and that is bad for my back). Very few will catch a leg kick unless it's a grappler of course, then any limb is an opportunity

Can you do them effectively with both the left and right leg?

 

[Fungus]

Can you do them effectively with both the left and right leg?

Not as much as I would like! But I get your point, it would be awesome to be equally good at both sides!

I definitely have a better side, which. Also my back issues are lateral, so even with more training, one side it likely to always be worse. I can perofrm the kicks with both, but it is ALOT better with my right.

As I usually fight in orthodox stance, my lead leg is not near as dangerous as when I switch to southpaw. In orthodox stance my lead hook is my main weapon along with kicking inside their lead leg, so I advance more liek a boxer. When I switch to southpaw, my lead leg is my main weapon. So oddly enough my "fighting style" tends to become different as I change stance. Sometimes i wonder which stance is my best, as both has pros and cons.

 

[Fungus]

As I think of it, in orthodox stance by bad side is leading, so then my priority is not first line defense but power counters (with my rear). But in southpaw I have a stronger first line defence, and better first line attacks, but at the cost of slower power counters, with the exception of the stepping-in back kick, that is one of my better overall kicks, and itäs quick when in southpaw.

When I started I felt southpaw was "easier" but i have come to think that i need to train also orthodox, so this is why it has become my default. But it's funny how if often changes the game if you change stance mid-fight.

 

[gyoja]

Not as much as I would like! But I get your point, it would be awesome to be equally good at both sides!

I definitely have a better side, which. Also my back issues are lateral, so even with more training, one side it likely to always be worse. I can perofrm the kicks with both, but it is ALOT better with my right.

As I usually fight in orthodox stance, my lead leg is not near as dangerous as when I switch to southpaw. In orthodox stance my lead hook is my main weapon along with kicking inside their lead leg, so I advance more liek a boxer. When I switch to southpaw, my lead leg is my main weapon. So oddly enough my "fighting style" tends to become different as I change stance. Sometimes i wonder which stance is my best, as both has pros and cons.

I completely understand, as I have a permanent back injury as well. I also fight southpaw most of the time. I make sure to train both sides, but my dominant side is noticeably more efficient.

 

[isshinryuronin]

my "fighting style" tends to become different as I change stance.

When leading with one side, I fight with more finesse. With the other side, more power oriented.

I make sure to train both sides, but my dominant side is noticeably more efficient.

I do some techniques better with one side leading, such as backfist, side kick and spinning back kick. Leading with the other side, reverse punch and other back leg kicks are better. Some moves I do equally well with either side.

I'm comfortable leading with either side as I have a range of techniques with each and usually will switch leads several times within the span of minutes. Sometimes it's to set up my next move, other times it's to upset the opponent's plan by giving a new look and taking away his anticipated targets, upsetting his timing.

 

[gyoja]

When leading with one side, I fight with more finesse. With the other side, more power oriented.

I do some techniques better with one side leading, such as backfist, side kick and spinning back kick. Leading with the other side, reverse punch and other back leg kicks are better. Some moves I do equally well with either side.

I'm comfortable leading with either side as I have a range of techniques with each and usually will switch leads several times within the span of minutes. Sometimes it's to set up my next move, other times it's to upset the opponent's plan by giving a new look and taking away his anticipated targets, upsetting his timing.

Unfortunately, my efficiency is limited by injuries, but I have found new ways to deal with them. Some are things like you mentioned, such as switching sides to set up my next move, etc.

 

[TheTraveleress]

Functional semi-related question... why would the wheel kick ever be used? a powerful kick, that could break the board, with a straight leg... would be a broken leg. What is the purpose of this kick other than show of control and balance?

 

[Fungus]

Functional semi-related question... why would the wheel kick ever be used? a powerful kick, that could break the board, with a straight leg... would be a broken leg. What is the purpose of this kick other than show of control and balance?

They way I do this kick, my leg is not straight in impact; there is still a hook. The difference for me (not sure if we are talking of different things) is wether it is chambered early, then extended, then hooked vs just beeing extended and hook in the end.

Purpose is (for me) - more power (but slower), and slightly easier to perform. Also the knee should obviously not be UP as you strike, that would be an instant way to damage your knee, that is a different kick, more like a uchi keage, spinning crescent kic used at best to kick a weapon out of someones hand (so no STOP) or risk damaging the kneed.

 

[TheTraveleress]

They way I do this kick, my leg is not straight in impact; there is still a hook. The difference for me (not sure if we are talking of different things) is wether it is chambered early, then extended, then hooked vs just beeing extended and hook in the end.

Purpose is (for me) - more power (but slower), and slightly easier to perform. Also the knee should obviously not be UP as you strike, that would be a quick way to damage your kneed, that is a different kick, more like a uchi keage, spinning crescent kic used at best to kick a weapon out of someones hand (so no STOP) or risk damaging the kneed.

As I understand wheel kick, it is a straight legged kick that comes around in the spin fully extended, straight on a flat plane and then impacts with the heel, a little bend or hook would help protect the knee, but hook or no hook, the later for wheel kick. I have never seen this kick used outside of forms or demonstrations of different kicks... it does not seem practical in sparring regardless because the weight/drag of an untucked leg slows the kick and makes you vulnerable to grabbing. Though grabbing is illegal, why practice a kick that makes you vulnerable?

The hook kick as I have learned, practiced and seen in competition is chambered then extended with the hook at the end.

Yes, I consider the same with spin crescent... it is a great head kick, but with power, the kick is hard on the knee because of its side impact. The hook reaches higher, and is better for the knee. They both flow in almost the same pattern in the air, chambered then extended, though body position is a little different. Crescent is better for moving gaurd down, moving a weapon, creating open space fo attack....

thank you!

 

[Buka]

As I understand wheel kick, it is a straight legged kick that comes around in the spin fully extended, straight on a flat plane and then impacts with the heel, a little bend or hook would help protect the knee, but hook or no hook, the later for wheel kick. I have never seen this kick used outside of forms or demonstrations of different kicks... it does not seem practical in sparring regardless because the weight/drag of an untucked leg slows the kick and makes you vulnerable to grabbing. Though grabbing is illegal, why practice a kick that makes you vulnerable?

The hook kick as I have learned, practiced and seen in competition is chambered then extended with the hook at the end.

Yes, I consider the same with spin crescent... it is a great head kick, but with power, the kick is hard on the knee because of its side impact. The hook reaches higher, and is better for the knee. They both flow in almost the same pattern in the air, chambered then extended, though body position is a little different. Crescent is better for moving gaurd down, moving a weapon, creating open space fo attack....

thank you!

We used to use a wheel kick in kickboxing more than in point fighting. Either for a power shot or for a set up - throw a couple really hard ones into their guard in the early rounds - then switch to the spinning hook and go right through their hands.

Nobody I ever trained with ever hurt their knee from throwing a wheel kick. But like everything else, it’s a lot of practice.

As for throwing a kick that is susceptible to getting grabbed, that’s a set up as well - for experienced kickers. When the opponent grabs your kicking leg, they are going to get kicked with the other leg before they know what happened. UNLESS they’re hep to your game. If they are, when you throw the follow kick….the one that you set them up for, all they have to do is let go. When they do, you are temporarily screwed.

 

[Fungus]

As I understand wheel kick, it is a straight legged kick that comes around in the spin fully extended, straight on a flat plane and then impacts with the heel, a little bend or hook would help protect the knee, but hook or no hook, the later for wheel kick.

For me hook or not, depends on distance. The key for me with the "wheel kick" is that it STARTS and revs up fully extended - for maximum angular momentum.

Then in close range, I hook, so the finish of hte kick is the same, the beginning is different. But perhaps we need a third name for this kick then?

it does not seem practical in sparring regardless because the weight/drag of an untucked leg slows the kick and makes you vulnerable to grabbing. Though grabbing is illegal, why practice a kick that makes you vulnerable?

This is IMO effective for spinning low kicks to the leg or thigh/hip joint (there is a magic nerve spot somewhere i hit). Noone except a maybe a grappler grabs a low kick.

Maybe for the liver too, but there the spinning back kick is better.

The hook kick as I have learned, practiced and seen in competition is chambered then extended with the hook at the end.

Yes, agreed. But I hook my wheel kick to if close, you obviously loose range from the hooking. But the key for me is omission of the chambering. But never full extended, that is risky for knee. I practice enough heavy bag to know that it is a very bad idea for power.

Crescent is better for moving gaurd down, moving a weapon, creating open space fo attack....

Agreed here too. Due to my back issues, the spining crescent kick is the only kick I CAN do to the head reasonbly. But it's low power and leaves you med vulnerable and poort balance, so I use this only when the opponent is backing down, it is not a "power kick" at all. Just a fun distraction.

 

[Earl Weiss]

As I understand wheel kick, it is a straight legged kick that comes around in the spin fully extended, straight on a flat plane and then impacts with the heel, a little bend or hook would help protect the knee, but hook or no hook, the later for wheel kick. I have never seen this kick used outside of forms or demonstrations of different kicks... it does not seem practical in sparring regardless because the weight/drag of an untucked leg slows the kick and makes you vulnerable to grabbing. Though grabbing is illegal, why practice a kick that makes you vulnerable?

This Kick? Some have knee bent more than others.

 

[HighKick]

This Kick? Some have knee bent more than others.

The third K.O. (red trunks) had Great mechanics. One of the hallmarks of a good wheel kick is the good defensive position it should leave you in. This has a Lot to do with how you move your upper body. And it does require better than average flexibility to pull off powerful head level kicks and land correctly.

To @Fungus , true it is usually more of a ranged kick than an hook, but the hips and shoulders are very different between the two kicks unless you are so limber you can over-rotate the hips at will. Foot placement is usually different as well.