Sparring and My Difficulty Against Kicks

[IvanTheBrick]

Ivan, buddy, I'm not trying to bully here, honest. You've read a book on neurology and psychology and I've taken two years of Physiological psychology in college [U Mass]. Big whoop. I've been teaching the Arts for a bit, too. Probably longer than your parents have been alive. But the eyes can lie, bro, they really can. You watch my eyes when we spar, I'll make you flinch nine ways to Sunday and misdirect all your movement. It's what we do when we teach kids and white belts.

And wait until you fall in love. Oh, how those eyes can lie.

>Not trying to be a bully
>Criticises me though I never actually disagreed with you
Ok lol

 

[oftheherd1]

Some basics in there (evade and block), and some movie choreography.

How did you manage to notice that?

 

[oftheherd1]

That's what I'm aiming for, and mostly getting.

Knee comes up, they react, I select a kick based on that reaction.

As I work with people with much more experience they have also developed speed, so it goes more like:

Knee comes up, they react, I select a kick based on that reaction, they perform a secondary reaction as the kick is in progress...

Sometimes I'm able to read the secondary reaction too and turn say a mid level turning kick into a high one, or a snap kick into a twisting kick.

It's certainly not an overnight process though, it's a constant evolution based on experience and observations.

Actually it sounds like you are doing better that you implied in the first post.

 

[oftheherd1]

I especially liked the "catch a side kick and throw it down then use their knee as a step to climb up and perform a neck break".

Some of the stuff shown might work, some against a slow sloppy kicker who telegraphs a lot - but a fair proportion just wouldn't.

Interesting you mention that. There is a very good reason that defense wouldn't likely progress to standing on the knee. It happens so quickly most wouldn't notice. The first defense is a knuckle strike to a pressure point just above the ankle bone. It is unlikely the attacker would be able to put his foot down and establish a strong enough stance to make a stair step. More likely the defender would fall if he tried that.

Before you discount that down to "some of the stuff might work," try it. Oh, you do have to have speed to go along with it of course. And if you don't know what you are doing, like striking a pressure point, don't even try.

I will agree that I don't like the high cross blocks. But practiced enough, I think they would work.

 

[Martial D]

My balance is solid, even in movement. I think it's mainly the footwork where the issue is. One thing I should have said in the beginning is that my goal is to stay away from using HANDS to block FEET. I want to rely on one of three things: (1) distance to move out of range of the kick, (2) footwork to bridge the distance and cut the kick's power, or (3) developing good enough reflexes to stop a kick WITH a kick.

If you are limiting yourself to these three things that might explain some of your difficulty.If the kick is following a straight line and is above the waist(front snap, teep, side, back-side) its easiest to parry with the arm and step to the outside. If its a round kick above the waist and you cant escape it(much of the time), its easiest to dig the elbow into the hip and brace, like you would for a body hook. Your results might vary, but these are my go-tos.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How did you manage to notice that?

I'm highly perceptive like that. It's a natural talent.

 

[Martial D]

@wingchun100

If you are limiting yourself to these three things that might explain some of your difficulty.If the kick is following a straight line and is above the waist(front snap, teep, side, back-side) its easiest to parry with the arm and step to the outside. If its a round kick above the waist and you cant escape it(much of the time), its easiest to dig the elbow into the hip and brace, like you would for a body hook. Your results might vary, but these are my go-tos.

Also, since you are a WC guy like me, the kick parry is basically gaun sau.

 

[oftheherd1]

Op. It is because your entries are crap. You are probably covering too much distance.

So they will hang back forcing you to make that step. And when you do they just nail you on the way in.

And possibly on the way out as well.

So you get caught mid hop. Which is why you can see the kick but can't move away from it.

Hang back let them come forwards then enter. With both of you moving forwards that reactionary gap is shortened.

In the Hapkido I learned, we are very defensive, although we know how to attack as well. But we generally wait until we are attacked and then react to the attack. But we are normally moving in when we counter attack.

 

[oftheherd1]

My balance is solid, even in movement. I think it's mainly the footwork where the issue is. One thing I should have said in the beginning is that my goal is to stay away from using HANDS to block FEET. I want to rely on one of three things: (1) distance to move out of range of the kick, (2) footwork to bridge the distance and cut the kick's power, or (3) developing good enough reflexes to stop a kick WITH a kick.

I did that once in TKD. A strong brown belt kicker was just a little fast and I was just a moment slow in picking a defense; didn't close my hand into a fist. Mr. Rhee looked at me like he didn't believe I was one of his students and told that was a dangerous way to block. He was a moment too slow in saying that because my mildly jammed fingers had already communicated that to me.

Moving back is a good defense but be careful of your attacker learning to expect that and following you with a series of kicks.

Stopping a kick with a kick tends to devastate an opponent because it normally attacks a knee joint. But you have to be fast and accurate.

 

[yak sao]

Does he still do seminars anywhere? Maybe not in the States, but over in Europe?

Haven't been in touch with him for several years but I'm sure he's still making the circuit.
I'm sure if you did a Google search for ebmas you would come up with something.

 

[Ryan_]

You can't defend kicks you have to move out of the way or trade it for A strike/ grab of your own, fast movement and reaction are what you need,

Get a heavy bouncy dogs ball, throw it at a wall and practise catching it, When you throw it very hard,it comes back at you like a bullet, when that get easy , cut some lumps out of the ball so it takes random bounces, that OR get some one to hit tennis ball at you, that's good to

Choi Kwang Do had a technique to defend against kicks, however I'm not sure how effective it would be for kicks such as roundhouse kicks, but regular front kicks can definitely be defended against.
Although, I do agree evading the kick would make more sense in most scenarios because it would be easier to train to evade the kick than to block it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

most scenarios because it would be easier to train to evade the kick than to block it.

Knowing how to block a kick is critical. It's easier to block than to evade. Most people can naturally put their arms up faster than they can move the distance required to evade a kick. As humans most of us are hardwired to put our hand out to stop stuff from hitting us. You only need to look a toddlers to see this in the works at a young.

Most people probably get kick while in the process of thinking about doing something, or in the process of actually trying to do something. If you have the luxury to draw out kicks then it makes sense to evade. TKD people busted up all the time simply because they don't block the kick.

Sometimes you can evade and sometimes you can't.

 

[jobo]

Knowing how to block a kick is critical. It's easier to block than to evade. Most people can naturally put their arms up faster than they can move the distance required to evade a kick. As humans most of us are hardwired to put our hand out to stop stuff from hitting us. You only need to look a toddlers to see this in the works at a young.

Most people probably get kick while in the process of thinking about doing something, or in the process of actually trying to do something. If you have the luxury to draw out kicks then it makes sense to evade. TKD people busted up all the time simply because they don't block the kick.

Sometimes you can evade and sometimes you can't.

I think you can always evade, if there is any sort of MaTc in speed and reactions of the kicker and kickee, that's kicks traveling a long way

 

[jobo]

Choi Kwang Do had a technique to defend against kicks, however I'm not sure how effective it would be for kicks such as roundhouse kicks, but regular front kicks can definitely be defended against.
Although, I do agree evading the kick would make more sense in most scenarios because it would be easier to train to evade the kick than to block it.

Well yes, if it's some naMby RIb tickeler, they yes block it. If the kick is likely to cut you in half, then it might be better to take it on your arms than the intended target, but it's going to really hurt

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think you can always evade, if there is any sort of MaTc in speed and reactions of the kicker and kickee, that's kicks traveling a long way

Kicks travel fast and they can be deceptive, which is why you see a lot of people getting caught with them. Sometimes you can evade and sometimes you can't. If you can't evade because you see the kick coming too late, then what's your next best option?

 

[jobo]

Kicks travel fast and they can be deceptive, which is why you see a lot of people getting caught with them. Sometimes you can evade and sometimes you can't. If you can't evade because you see the kick coming too late, then what's your next best option?

Well you getting kicked then, there no way round it, if you take the kick on your arm, you are still getting kicked

 

[pdg]

Actually it sounds like you are doing better that you implied in the first post.

The thread's first post wasn't mine...

Before you discount that down to "some of the stuff might work," try it. Oh, you do have to have speed to go along with it of course. And if you don't know what you are doing, like striking a pressure point, don't even try

I can only speak from my experience, and that shows that stepping/jumping back is a low success manoeuvre.

With regard to the defence shown (cup the kicking foot and strike the ankle area while stepping backwards) I don't think it would work against an experienced kicker.

One of the things we train to do is retract with speed and remake the kick while skipping the supporting leg toward the target, so stepping back would likely mean you just get kicked further away.


Another defence shown was to catch the kick and sweep the supporting leg.

During this evening's sparring I deliberately telegraphed a turning kick because I knew the guy I was against would grab it - as he caught I kicked his other side with my other leg...

I'm not saying none of the techniques would ever work because some would against an awful lot of people, and I'm not saying I'm a fantastic kicker - but I reckon I could defeat the majority of those defences.

 

[Ryan_]

Knowing how to block a kick is critical. It's easier to block than to evade. Most people can naturally put their arms up faster than they can move the distance required to evade a kick. As humans most of us are hardwired to put our hand out to stop stuff from hitting us. You only need to look a toddlers to see this in the works at a young.

Most people probably get kick while in the process of thinking about doing something, or in the process of actually trying to do something. If you have the luxury to draw out kicks then it makes sense to evade. TKD people busted up all the time simply because they don't block the kick.

Sometimes you can evade and sometimes you can't.

Well I think everything is situational but I'm not sure I would agree when you say it would be easier to block. Quite often - at least from my experience - it would be more possible to move outside of the range of the kick (or move out then step in in a close combat Stance)

Well yes, if it's some naMby RIb tickeler, they yes block it. If the kick is likely to cut you in half, then it might be better to take it on your arms than the intended target, but it's going to really hurt

For most people while they are kicking (let's say an average person attacking you on Street) they will be relatively easy to throw off balance. (which I have personally needed to do before)

 

[Martial D]

The thread's first post wasn't mine...



I can only speak from my experience, and that shows that stepping/jumping back is a low success manoeuvre.

With regard to the defence shown (cup the kicking foot and strike the ankle area while stepping backwards) I don't think it would work against an experienced kicker.

One of the things we train to do is retract with speed and remake the kick while skipping the supporting leg toward the target, so stepping back would likely mean you just get kicked further away.


Another defence shown was to catch the kick and sweep the supporting leg.

During this evening's sparring I deliberately telegraphed a turning kick because I knew the guy I was against would grab it - as he caught I kicked his other side with my other leg...

I'm not saying none of the techniques would ever work because some would against an awful lot of people, and I'm not saying I'm a fantastic kicker - but I reckon I could defeat the majority of those defences.

Agreed. Fancy blocks don't work. Not for punches, not for kicks. Not from people that are good strikers.

Unless , I suppose, you happen to have supernatural reflexes. Time and Time again studies have shown reaction time is slower than initiation time by orders of magnitude.

Parries/covers combined with lateral movements are the highest % for normal humans like me.

 

[pdg]

Fancy blocks don't work. Not for punches

I clicked agree, but I must take exception to this one part.

My punches are so shockingly bad that you could go and make a coffee, read a newspaper, then still have time to make that 13 stage blocking move work