Sparring and My Difficulty Against Kicks

[jobo]

I agree it shouldn't be your constant goto defense.

QUOTE="pdg, post: 1898538, member: 38938"]With regard to the defence shown (cup the kicking foot and strike the ankle area while stepping backwards) I don't think it would work against an experienced kicker.

That is why I said it is very difficult to look at grappling videos and know what is going on and what you need to do to make it work. What is happening is that he is trapping the foot. I didn't learn it that way, just to step back and simultaneously strike. A lot of what you are seeing, just like a lot of videos, is slowed down for you to (hopefully) learn. Moves are slowed down and done sequentially for demonstration and learning purposes (like forms for instance). The goal is to be fast and make some of the moves simultaneously so your opponent has less chance, or simply cannot react. From your comments, either don't try to learn, or know you can't just try it (or most moves) one time, decide it won't work, and tell the world what a bad move it is..

QUOTE="pdg, post: 1898538, member: 38938"]One of the things we train to do is retract with speed and remake the kick while skipping the supporting leg toward the target, so stepping back would likely mean you just get kicked further away.[/QUOTE]

Yes, as I said.

QUOTE="pdg, post: 1898538, member: 38938"]Another defence shown was to catch the kick and sweep the supporting leg.

During this evening's sparring I deliberately telegraphed a turning kick because I knew the guy I was against would grab it - as he caught I kicked his other side with my other leg...[/QUOTE]

So he had your kicking leg, and you used your supporting leg to kick his other side. What was holding you up?

QUOTE="pdg, post: 1898538, member: 38938"]I'm not saying none of the techniques would ever work because some would against an awful lot of people, and I'm not saying I'm a fantastic kicker - but I reckon I could defeat the majority of those defences.[/QUOTE]

I don't know you nor your capabilities, so I can't disagree. But until you unexpectedly encounter one of those defenses, don't be too sure.[/QUOTE]
No I don't think it is( faster) if I'm up on my toes I can jump back or side ways with some considerable speed, my caLfs and quads have no trouble moving my mass very quickly, it does need fast reactions, but so does blocking

 

[jobo]

I'm not aware of this as a strategy taught by any MA (maybe MT, though I have always gotten the impression that's a training tool and used when movement isn't available). Everyone I've talked kick defense with moves. Most block while moving, unless they are countering while moving. I can't recall any who just move (with no block or counter).

No it's another one of my soccer Fu moves, I've spend a lot of time trying not to get kicked, the littlE hulton Sunday league is a war zone.

Though I'm sure Bruce Lee said " you can't hit what isn't there, though it could have been someone else. And boxing relies very heaviIy on backing s ay from strikes As does mma

 

[pdg]

Ah, that would work. I just didn't realize his intent was to stop and hold you.

I could've said "levitation" - I would've loved to see the responses to that

His intention with the grab seemed to be stop and push, which worked in my favour because it opened up his front to my other leg as he turned - stop and keep stopping would work too, going for the flank. Stop and sweep would have needed a slightly different counter-counter to flow with the different force.

I look at it that if you always need one foot on the ground to kick or if you can't land on the foot you're kicking with you're not really a kicker.

 

[jobo]

Pretty sure we're talking about the same thing - what I'm saying though is that you can block faster than you can move.

To my mind, the ideal is to do both. Move enough (in any direction) to take the main force away, and block at the same time, possibly/probably turning the block into a grab.



That's why the retraction/recovery is as important (if not more so) than the actual kick itself. Get that foot back on the floor or get dumped. If it gets grabbed, learn how to use that to your advantage.

If anyone thinks they can perform an end game devastating kick first time every time, sure, leave it hanging out there for the kodak moment.

If you're human however, it's yours so get it back



If I'm ever up north I'll give you a message, it could be fun.



Yes, relying on moving in one fashion all the time just won't work.

Don't be the mountain, be the stream

No I don't think it is( faster) if I'm up on my toes I can jump back or side ways with some considerable speed, my caLfs and quads have no trouble moving my mass very quickly, it does need fast reactions, but so does blocking

 

[JowGaWolf]

If I have time to block i have time to move, I only have rollback 6"

Moving just to be moving has no purpose. The focus should be can you move enough and cover enough distance to evade the strike. This is different than just saying if you have time to block you have time to move. Yeah you can move but it's not guaranteed you can move the distance to avoid the strike. Not only that but a block cab be used to help close distance. There is a reason why EVERY fighting system has blocks and redirects.

 

[jobo]

Moving just to be moving has no purpose. The focus should be can you move enough and cover enough distance to evade the strike. This is different than just saying if you have time to block you have time to move. Yeah you can move but it's not guaranteed you can move the distance to avoid the strike. Not only that but a block cab be used to help close distance. There is a reason why EVERY fighting system has blocks and redirects.

Well yes no maybe, the first goal is not to get tagged, if a fight lasts till the other guy gets bored or gAssess out , that's ok with me, if he gets frustrated with hitting thin air and over commits I'm have him. This won't win many contests, but that's not my purpose in life, not up getting kicked in the head is

 

[EddieCyrax]

Yes, for sure...intercept with a kick. I have always loved that technique when I watch it, but...pulling it off is a b*tch! LOL

He was your Sifu? Shoot, man...lucky. Does he still do seminars anywhere? Maybe not in the States, but over in Europe?

I use this tactic a lot. Negates the power of their kicks.

Another option that works if you are in an open stance with your sparring partner is to time a spinning back kick as they throw that roundhouse from the back leg.

Timing is everything.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No it's another one of my soccer Fu moves, I've spend a lot of time trying not to get kicked, the littlE hulton Sunday league is a war zone.

Though I'm sure Bruce Lee said " you can't hit what isn't there, though it could have been someone else. And boxing relies very heaviIy on backing s ay from strikes As does mma

And none of that is counter to what I said.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I look at it that if you always need one foot on the ground to kick or if you can't land on the foot you're kicking with you're not really a kicker.

I like that distinction. I would not call myself a kicker, though I kick a fair amount in sparring. For me, the kicks are mostly for control and set-up (my kicks simply aren't fast enough to be a primary weapon).

 

[jobo]

And none of that is counter to what I said.

No sometimes just once in a while I agree and just embellishing The point, your expecting a counter and one doesn't come, which back to my original piint

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No sometimes just once in a while I agree and just embellishing The point, your expecting a counter and one doesn't come, which back to my original piint

Well, when you start with "no", but are agreeing, that's a bit confusing.

 

[pdg]

I like that distinction. I would not call myself a kicker, though I kick a fair amount in sparring. For me, the kicks are mostly for control and set-up (my kicks simply aren't fast enough to be a primary weapon).

By my own definition I'm not quite a kicker either, but that's what I'm working toward.

My punches are my setup (unless it's point scoring, in which case they do work sometimes) - there's just not enough power there.

They're good for distraction and distancing to get my legs into play though.

Maybe that's what the actual OP is experiencing somewhat?

 

[jobo]

Well, when you start with "no", but are agreeing, that's a bit confusing.

Not when I'm agreeing with a negative, " it didn't rain on thursday, " no (it didn't )or specifically " it's not instructed in most ma" no (it isnt")

 

[oftheherd1]

I could've said "levitation" - I would've loved to see the responses to that

His intention with the grab seemed to be stop and push, which worked in my favour because it opened up his front to my other leg as he turned - stop and keep stopping would work too, going for the flank. Stop and sweep would have needed a slightly different counter-counter to flow with the different force.

I look at it that if you always need one foot on the ground to kick or if you can't land on the foot you're kicking with you're not really a kicker.

Look about the 55 second mark. If the greatest kicker of all time couldn't do it, why should I believe you can?

Truthfully, if that is the criteria for really being a kicker, I don't guess I qualify. I used to think I did have a lot of power in times past.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I look at it that if you always need one foot on the ground to kick or if you can't land on the foot you're kicking with you're not really a kicker.

I guess I'm not really a kicker, then, since I don't use jumping kicks any more. Guess I better turn in my belts and stop teaching...
On the other hand, I never saw Bill Wallace (one of the best kickers ever. Full stop.) use a jumping kick either, so I'm in good company. Maybe I dare keep teaching after all.

And since when do you land on the kicking foot anyway?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Ways to defend against kicks ...

Move the entire body out of range
Move the entire body laterally
Move the entire body towards the opponent, jamming the kick
Move just the body part being targeted out of the way
Move the entire body or the targeted area while simultaneously counter-striking
Block with a leg
Block with one or both arms
Redirect the kick, using an arm or leg
Perform a stop hit, using a punch or kick
Catch the kick and use it to takedown or off-balance the opponent
Catch the kick and use the moment for a counter strike
Catch the kick and use the opportunity for a destruction on the kicking leg
Perform a destruction on the kicking leg without catching it
Maintain aggressive pressure to keep the fight at close range with the opponent moving backwards so they can't launch kicks effectively.
Stay out of range until the opponent commits to a rapid advance, then reverse directions, meeting them at close range and clinch or overwhelm them with close range strikes before they have a chance to kick.

These methods can (and often should) be combined. For example, move with a round kick to take the sting off, wrap the leg, counter-kick to the groin, advance while holding the leg to compromise the opponent's balance, release the leg while closing to clinch/dirty boxing range, and maintain forward pressure to keep the opponent from having further opportunities to kick.

At any given moment , the circumstances in a fight may favor one or another of the methods listed above. For example, moving the entire body may allow you to completely evade the destructive potential of the kick.
On the other hand, if your body is already in motion you may not have time to reverse your momentum if you are moving the wrong direction for the appropriate evasion.

 

[wingchun100]

At this point it is now a matter of muscle memory, which will come only with drills.

 

[wingchun100]

You have all given me some excellent tips, ideas, and things to think about. I cannot thank the board enough!

 

[JowGaWolf]

A good kicker (not me) can make that change in the same time the original kick would have landed. So, while you have time to move back 6", in that same time they are making the adjustment for that 6" move (without creating more time for you to move).

That's what this kick does.

and this kick does it too

here's another one

I'm not a fan of TKD but they are some of the best kickers in MA. Sleep on those kicks and you'll go to sleep for real.

I wish I had my videos up so I could show me chasing someone down who is retreating. I was able to kick and sweep my opponent as he was still retreating.

 

[jobo]

That's what this kick does.

and this kick does it too

here's another one

I'm not a fan of TKD but they are some of the best kickers in MA. Sleep on those kicks and you'll go to sleep for real.

I wish I had my videos up so I could show me chasing someone down who is retreating. I was able to kick and sweep my opponent as he was still retreating.

I noted that midway through the Bruce vid, her was Sparing g and just moving backwards to avoid kickS, no blockss, so if it's good enough for him