Soldier defies President.

[jarrod]

i enlisted in the marine corps after 9/11. when they announced we would be going to iraq, i found a way out of the military. it was a moral choice because i didn't feel right about staying in. but it was illegal & i took my lumps for it.

whether this guy is standing by his conscience or not, he's breaking the law.

jf

 

[Gordon Nore]

Office of Personnel Management. The federal dipwads we call Revenge of the "C" Student.

I should have remembered that colourful metaphor. Thanks.

 

[elder999]

I should have remembered that colourful metaphor. Thanks.

It's not a metaphor. Most of us were at least B+ students. Most of us went to excellent if not top tier schools. Most of us make well over $80,000/yr. Most of them were C students. Most of them didn't go to the best of schools, and are retired law enforcement of one sort or another. Most of them make between 50 and 80k/yr.

There's more than a little resentment from both sides. They have power over us for a short time, and like using it. We make more than we do, and don't think much of them or the intrusion on our lives, even though it's exactly what we signed up for. They like to intimate that they'll use any little idiosyncracy (What, you don't socialize with your neighbors??! What do you mean, you don't have neighbors??!!!! :lfao to keep us from getting or keeping our clearance. A lot of us make it really clear that we don't want them in our homes, or talking to our friends, or anything like that, and we're only putting up with it because we have to. Which, apparently, is better than asking them to sit down for dinner, like I did 10 years ago......:lfao:

 

[BrandonLucas]

I'm throwing my .02 in...and I don't really care how "politically sound" this post is or isn't...

This whole thread is the biggest crock of b.s. I have seen in a while. Obama is President of the United States of America. Has been for a few weeks now. It's really been too early to tell if he's going to screw up or be the next messiah.

To any of you arguing over the man's creds: seriously, stop. It's coming across like you all are a bunch of whiners because the dude won the election, and now you're nit-picking at the least little thing you can find to discredit him.

I'm not waving some huge Obama flag here, and I can certainly tell you that I did not vote for either him or McCain...I wrote in my own candidate....so I did at least vote. But this whole situation is just plain stupid.

And why even argue over it? This thread is already, what, 6 freakin' pages long? Full of nothing but "patriotic reasoning"?

I don't care if it is race related. I don't care if it is not race related. I don't care if it is because he's a dem. I don't care if it's because he's not a republican.

THE GUY IS THE LEADER OF THE F'ING COUNTRY YOU LIVE AND BREATHE IN. EITHER STAND BEHIND THE DECISION THAT WAS MADE BY DEMOCRACY OR MOVE.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Bob Hauk: There was an accident. About an hour ago, a small jet went down inside New York City. The President was on board.
Snake Plisskenresident of what?
--Escape From New York

 

[jetboatdeath]

THE GUY IS THE LEADER OF THE F'ING COUNTRY YOU LIVE AND BREATHE IN. EITHER STAND BEHIND THE DECISION THAT WAS MADE BY DEMOCRACY OR MOVE.

Yea get in line, forget the Constitution, do what you are told pay for your neighbors health care and mortgage, don't question trillions of dollars that we don't have being spent, and for god’s sake don't look behind the curtain...

We are not a democracy, never have been.
Our Country was built on questioning the politicians, disagreements and discussion. THEY ARE SUPOSED TO REPRESENT US.
This bull **** of party line politics has gone on long enough.
Saying because he is or isn't something and tossing the race card then saying you are not a Lib...I pee'd my pants a little...
It is because he is destroying this nation.
So if you don't like it SPEAK UP!!! And If you who posted the big bold opinion don't like people speaking up maybe your choice of a place to live might need a quick review.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I'm throwing my .02 in...
THE GUY IS THE LEADER OF THE F'ING COUNTRY YOU LIVE AND BREATHE IN. EITHER STAND BEHIND THE DECISION THAT WAS MADE BY DEMOCRACY OR MOVE.

Hmmm. I certainly agree that the breathless conspiracies about your President's lineage are laughable. It's a very silly distraction when people are losing their livelihood and their health care, and there's wars going on.

But the love-it-or-leave-it sentiment, which I hear plenty of here in Canada, is something else. For eight years the Province of Ontario was ruled by a grunting oaf named Mike Harris, who trashed public and secondary education, threw welfare recipients to the streets, and devastated the public sector with tens of thousands of lay-offs. People would say to me, "He got elected fair and square, so you have to accept it." Hell no, I don't. But if I'm gonna be critical, I should be making substantial thoughtful criticisms.

President Obama's policy decisions (while coming from the polar opposite of former Premier Harris' side of the political ledger) are nonetheless sweeping, complicated, and very, very expensive. It would be really great if his critics practised a little critical analysis and went after him on that basis. The birth certificate fanatics are giving him a free ride -- the more they talk about nonsense, the less they're talking about substance. But, then again, bullshart baffles brains.

I think if people in the USA don't like the President's policies, they don't have to go any place, and your constitution, like mine, would agree. Further, that same Constitution, like mine, enshrines the right of citizens to tell their leader that he's full of shart, and then they really should say why.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Our Country was built on questioning the politicians, disagreements and discussion.

Ideally, yes, but that's not how it's practised on the ground, is it?

Except when libruls criticized the War in Iraq, they were hurting morale of the troops, at least according to Rummy. If I had a nickel (even a Canadian nickel) for every time I heard a conservative Republican say, "We gotta support the President in this terrible time." What they don't see -- what partisans don't see -- is if you give power to a politician you like, some day another guy that you don't like is gonna have the same power.

This bull **** of party line politics has gone on long enough.[/QUOTE]

Say, since last January? Just a guess.

FWIW, I agree. You should speak up if you don't like what your leader is doing. People who agree with Mr Obama might even hear counter arguments if they weren't accomanied with character assassination, fist-pounding, and hyperbole ('He's destroying our country.').

The more people pound their fists and bray like Limbaugh and Coulture, the more Obama's supporters are just gonna stand on the other side going, Neener neener neener.

And for God sakes, acknowledging that the Commander in Chief is black is not playing any kind of race card.

 

[jetboatdeath]

FWIW, I agree. You should speak up if you don't like what your leader is doing. People who agree with Mr Obama might even hear counter arguments if they weren't accomanied with character assassination, fist-pounding, and hyperbole ('He's destroying our country.').

Your point is taked but this happens with EVERY administration, how many years of Bush bashing did we have? Give me a break I bitched about Bush as well. And Obama has done more to destroy this nation than others, every time he opens his mouth the dow plummits, thats a fact...

This bull **** of party line politics has gone on long enough.[/QUOTE]

Say, since last January? Just a guess.

nope more along the lines of forever.
If a republican or demacrat disagrees with a bill they should vote agenst it. Not for it because the president is a party member. Many dems have come out saying that they never even read the stim bill neither did the repub's because it was pushed out so fast.. come on is that the way to do things?

And for God sakes, acknowledging that the Commander in Chief is black is not playing any kind of race card.

Nope not at all but saying I or any one else does not agree with him BECAUSE he is black is, and that is what has been posted in here...

 

[arnisador]

Yea get in line, forget the Constitution

The point is not that this was never a valid consitutional question...it's that eventually, as with Bush-Gore in 200, the country must have closure and more forward.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Yea get in line, forget the Constitution, do what you are told pay for your neighbors health care and mortgage, don't question trillions of dollars that we don't have being spent, and for god’s sake don't look behind the curtain...

We are not a democracy, never have been.
Our Country was built on questioning the politicians, disagreements and discussion. THEY ARE SUPOSED TO REPRESENT US.
This bull **** of party line politics has gone on long enough.
Saying because he is or isn't something and tossing the race card then saying you are not a Lib...I pee'd my pants a little...
It is because he is destroying this nation.
So if you don't like it SPEAK UP!!! And If you who posted the big bold opinion don't like people speaking up maybe your choice of a place to live might need a quick review.

Wow...I see you've put a lot of thought into this post...

We are not a democracy, never have been.

I know I slept through highschool, but I seem to remember someone somewhere saying something about our form of government being a democracy...:idunno:

Our Country was built on questioning the politicians, disagreements and discussion. THEY ARE SUPOSED TO REPRESENT US.

Agreed. But the big difference is that the questioning, disagreements and discussions should eventually lead to a solution to a problem...which is what I fail to see anywhere in the posts in this thread...instead of finding a solution to the problem and acting on it, all I'm seeing is a bunch of bitching and moaning...

This bull **** of party line politics has gone on long enough.

Agree here too. I think the whole idea of democratic vs. republican is the biggest waste of time ever. It all boils down to people who attempt to gain office to become self serving...

Saying because he is or isn't something and tossing the race card then saying you are not a Lib...I pee'd my pants a little...

I personally don't care what color the guy is, or what color you are, for that matter. He was voted to be the President of the United States...not that I voted for him, and I'm just venturing a guess that you didn't vote for him either...but the fact remains that he is in office right now. Crying about it now and trying to grasp onto last ditch efforts to boot him from office is pretty pathetic. Want him out of office? Stop whining about it and do something about it.

I pee'd my pants a little...

So I guess you're just going to complain about the fact that you did until someone changes your pants for you...

It is because he is destroying this nation.

Yep. In the month and a half that Obama has been the President, he has single-handedly destroyed everything that Bush worked so hard to accomplish in his 8 years in term. Get a grip. It's not all Obama...it's all of the elected officials that we, collectively, put into office...which, last time I checked, was a part of democracy...

So if you don't like it SPEAK UP!!!

I think there's been enough speaking up to last a couple of lifetimes...like I keep stating, talk is cheap. STFU, get out of your computer chair, put the bag of chips down, put on something besides pajama pants, and do something.

And If you who posted the big bold opinion don't like people speaking up maybe your choice of a place to live might need a quick review.

Yeah, I said it. Maybe it's just me, but people who are all talk and no action just seem to get on my nerves. I don't need to review my choice of a place to live...I'm not the one who is playing the "keyboard warrior" role. "Whaaa, the economy is going down the tube!....Whaaa, the President is a guy I don't like!...Whaaa, I peed myself and I'm just going to sit in it and complain about it!....."

Threads like this solve nothing about the state of the economy. Want to help the situation? Write your congressman about your concerns. That's what they're there for...you even said it...they work for us...so make them work. Don't think you're getting the results you want from your congressman? Write him again, Skippy!

See a pattern here?

It's not that hard...in fact, if everyone that has posted with their complaints put that kind of energy into trying to make the government work for you, then maybe, just maybe, something would get done.

Until you're willing to roll your sleeves up and get your hands dirty....here's a big, bold comment for you....

STFU

 

[Makalakumu]

Brandon - its easy to get on a high horse and start telling people to get up and do something, but I think if you knew a little more about the nature of this problem, you'd be a tad more conservative (small c). Obama and Bush are and were both figureheads for a powerful cadre of financial interests that basically run both parties. If that sounds a little paranoid, I suggest talking and listening to what people on both sides are saying. The similarities are not coincidence. Then go out and learn as much as you can. As evil often does, this revolves around money.

 

[Sukerkin]

Brandon, whilst I admire it when a person has strong opinions and is able to articulate them well, allowing that strength of view to erode into a somewhat too direct four-letter-abbreviation undermines the effectiveness of the whole effort.

Those members who have been here a while know that permitting your passions to pollute your message with blatant personal attacks or insidious insults will eventually lead to action that may well end the 'conversation' prematurely.

That would be a shame as threads like this allow people to vent off their less sensible or more volatile fears and opinions in a relatively harmless way.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I appologize for sounding so harsh, and I agree I could have worded that much better...so my appologies there.

And I certainly don't know enough to debate the actual topic at hand, so I agree there as well...

The thing is, I'm not actually debating the topic at hand...what I tried to say and didn't say well enough is that simply debating the issue isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Some kind of action needs to be taken by someone...I'm certainly not the guy, because of my lack of experience and knowledge...but this issue is no different than any other issue that is not political.

Say, for instance, your car breaks down on the side of the road. Is it frustrating? Yes, very. Is it unfortunate? You better believe it is. Will sitting behind the wheel of the car and talking about how frustrated you are solve the problem? No. Not at all.

It would be much more productive to get out of the car, try to figure out why the car broke down, and if you aren't able to figure it out, then call someone else to come help you figure it out. Once the problem has been located, start trying to repair the problem. Alot of times, you may not be able to do this on your own, and you would need some help from someone else...possibly someone more knowlegable, or possibly someone with more tools, or even both...but you repair the problem, and make your car drivable again.

That's basically what I'm saying here. If Obama is not a naturally born US citizen, then someone needs to prove that he isn't, rather than wait on him to prove that he is. The burden of proof lies with the accuser, not the accused.

If the economy is going down the toilet, rather than post thread after thread about how much is sucks, why not post thread after thread of great advice on how to save a little money here and there? Or how to start trying to rebuild the economy? And if any resolution is found there, why not send it to a state representative?

I do appologize for coming across as heated as I did. It is, admittedly, a pet peeve of mine for people to be all talk and no action. I should have worded what I posted better...so feel free to delete that previous post if need be.

 

[searcher]

Here is an update on the subject at hand.

Officer Calls Obama 'Usurper' President

February 25, 2009
Military.com|by Bryant Jordan


Using words such as "imposter" and "usurper," an active-duty Army officer in Iraq has joined a California lawyer's lawsuit intended to force President Barack Obama to prove he is a legal U.S. citizen, and therefore able to legally serve as the commander in chief.
"Until Mr. Obama releases a 'vault copy' of his original birth certificate for public review, I will consider him neither my Commander in Chief nor my President, but rather, a usurper to the Office -- an impostor," 1st Lt. Scott R. Easterling states in his letter published at Defendourfreedoms.com.
An Army spokesman told Military.com today that officials are aware of Easterling's letter.

Read the article here: http://www.military.com/news/articl...-president.html?col=1186032325324&ESRC=dod.nl

 

[Gordon Nore]

..I appologize for sounding so harsh, and I agree I could have worded that much better...so my appologies there.

And I certainly don't know enough to debate the actual topic at hand, so I agree there as well...

The thing is, I'm not actually debating the topic at hand...what I tried to say and didn't say well enough is that simply debating the issue isn't going to get anyone anywhere...

Brandon,

I share many of your sentiments generally, except for the abbreviated cuss, which I would be more apt to use unabbreviated and face-to-face, when called-for.

This conflict that you find yourself in is a very good example of the distraction that the birth certificiate embroglio has spawned. As I've said above, there are valid criticisms to be made of any leader by anybody, whether they voted for him or not, whether they belong to the same party or not.

I can relate to some of what you're saying. Pierre Elliot Trudeau was the Liberal Part Prime Minister of Canada for much early life. He was the PM I grew up with. Then he was defeated and served as Official Opposition leader, then resigned, and then made a comeback to the PMO. I never voted for him -- my politics are left of the Liberal Party of Canada.

My mom just hated the man. She was in a state of rage from from April 20, 1968 to June 4, 1979, and from March 3, 1980 to June 30, 1984. "
Damnit, Gordie, the man's a Socialist, and he's robbing us blind." As I got older, I used point out that I was more of a Socialist myself. Anyhow, I thought that was an awfully long time to be upset.

Then I lived through the Mike Harris years in Ontario and learned what it was like to be profoundly POd at a government leader.

Nonetheless, you and others have question how the President could possibly have ruined the country in a couple of months. That honeymoon usually ends pretty quick. We all bemoan how politicians get nasty in a very short time.

Here's another thought: Obama's been President for less than three months and already Americans are not talking to each other. They're shouting at eachother. And they're not getting angry as Americans with a shared history and vision; they're getting angry as Partisans and idealogues with consciously divisive agendas.

It's not just them, the politicians, and the sleazeballs who bankroll them. It's us.

 

[Empty Hands]

Here's another thought: Obama's been President for less than three months and already Americans are not talking to each other. They're shouting at eachother. And they're not getting angry as Americans with a shared history and vision; they're getting angry as Partisans and idealogues with consciously divisive agendas.

Don't allow what you see here or on the cable shoutfest shows to cloud your vision. What you can see online or on TV is only one small slice, and the volume is turned up very high. Opinion polls covering the entire country show a pretty reasonable level of support and agreement for what is going on now politically.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Don't allow what you see here or on the cable shoutfest shows to cloud your vision. What you can see online or on TV is only one small slice, and the volume is turned up very high. Opinion polls covering the entire country show a pretty reasonable level of support and agreement for what is going on now politically.

Point well taken, EH. I've not travelled to your sunny shores in a few years. CNN is bad for my perceptions.

 

[Gordon Nore]

"Until Mr. Obama releases a 'vault copy' of his original birth certificate for public review, I will consider him neither my Commander in Chief nor my President, but rather, a usurper to the Office -- an impostor," 1st Lt. Scott R. Easterling states in his letter published at Defendourfreedoms.com.

What a Narcissist. It really is a silly story.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I know I slept through highschool, but I seem to remember someone somewhere saying something about our form of government being a democracy...:idunno:

Technically, no, the USA is not a democracy. The actual definition of a democracy is 'government by the people', and although the government's power begins 'from the people', the people do not exercise day-to-day control over the government.

What we have is a representative republic. We vote for leaders, and those leaders in turn run the country. We divide power between three branches of government to maintain a system of checks and balances so that no one branch of government ends up with a monopoly on power.

Our elected representatives are supposed to represent their constituents, but in practice, they exercise whatever power they hold as they wish. Ideally, those who displease a majority of voters do not get reelected.

With regard to the President, we are even less a democracy, as we vote for the President directly, but majority vote is not what elects - it is the electoral college votes amassed by states, who are generally compelled to vote as their state's dictate.

The only time we see direct democracy in the USA is when we hold referendum votes or plebiscites. This type of vote is generally seen at the state level, and may be required for state constitutions to be altered.

A recent example of direct democracy would be the "Prop 8" results in California, which resulted in overturning the legality of 'Gay Marriage'. The California Supreme Court is currently considering challenges to the new law, but it is reported that they are leaning in favor of accepting the "Will of the People" as the law of the state in this case.

Democracy in its pure form is sometimes referred to as 'mob rule' and undesirable simply because it leads to governments being pulled back and forth based on the whims of the masses on any given day.

All in all, I'm fond of our form of government, imperfect though it is.