Soldier defies President.

[elder999]

Look, I have no problem with Obama being president if his birth certificate is real according to the 'American only' clause and independent sources have verified this.

Then this dicussion should be over-again. Independent sources have verified it, as has the State of Hawaii, and the State of Illinois-as a member of the bar, and, as a member of the Senate, he was subject to background investigations that begin with the attachment of a "real and true certified copy" of ones birth cetificate from the issuing agency, in his case, the Hawaii Department of Health.

I know, I have to get one (a birth certificate) every five years for my clearance reinvestigation.......

 

[Ninjamom]

"Lt" Easterling has the right to petition in court. In the meantime, he is subject to the same rules, regulations, and laws as all other military members. He has no 'right' to see Obama's birth certificate; he doesn't even have a 'right' to see his driver's license or his library card.

Far from being a hero, Lt Easterling's public stand is a black mark on the honor, integrity, and reputation of all the rest of us who have served or are serving in the US military. We have all taken the same oath to defend our Constitution, and willingly pledged our lives, if necessary, to do so.

I hope he faces courts-martial. And quckly.

 

[Cirdan]

This Lieutenant is a disgrace. He should either keep his mouth shut or resign.

 

[Ninjamom]

This was already discussed in depth on Martial Talk.

This thread:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70166&highlight=certificate
includes a complete discussion, lists and links to the exact laws in questions, links to copies of Obama's birth records, and links to statements by Hawaii Health Dept. officials who have certified his 'official' birth certificate as authentic.

End of story.

 

[arnisador]

Make room at Ft. Leavenworth for this weasel. He doesn't understand the role of the military in a democracy. This is distressing, unprofessional behaviour.

 

[Brian King]

Arnisador wrote:

“Make room at Ft. Leavenworth for this weasel. He doesn't understand the role of the military in a democracy. This is distressing, unprofessional behaviour.”

I thank the LT for his service but he should resign and do so quickly. He has shown a lack of regard and understanding of the constitution and his role as an officer in the Army. I do not know if he deserves Leavenworth…yet but he is getting close, he does merit courts-martial. Should he refuse any order based on this crap that the President is not the our President and the CIC then yup get a cell and a new uniform and lose all the rights and privileges a soldier and an officer is due.

"Well, his father was Kenyan and they said he was born in Hawaii, but I haven't seen any birth certificate," Shelby said. "You have to be born in America to be president."

“You have to be born in America to be president” Nope not only untrue but utter BS and as a member of the government Shelby should know better. This has been resolved in prior court cases. I believe MacArthur went thru this in his run and President Jackson as well and John McCain was born on a base at the Panama Canal, there have been others as well.

The thing that makes this all so stupid and frankly a bit of a mental disorder is that the folks who believe this crud admit that Obama’s mother was an American. That by itself makes him an American no matter where he was born. Folks that fall for this stuff are either completely ignorant of the constitution (sad that so many Americans are ignorant of this document) and the ways our government and laws work or they are suffering from some kind of mental illness and have such an irrational hatred and fear that they will lose their common sense they will believe and rationalize a bunch of nonsense. You see this same sort of stuff with the conspiracy freaks.

Elder999 wrote
“The problem is the color of his skin.” (Bolding by Elder999)

I don’t think this is true in this case but it does point out and justify my thoughts when so many people were saying that finally we can put to rest all the victimization and race baiting politics behind us with the election of the first person of color as U.S. President. I thought it would not but that it might get worse as now any criticism of governmental policies will be considered racism and that charge will be used by the ignorant and the manipulators to silence debate and dissenters. That racism exists there can be no doubt, it has in the past and will in the future, but not all disagreement is racist and we risk much when we scream too often that it is in my opinion.

Regards
Brian King

 

[elder999]

Elder999 wrote
“The problem is the color of his skin.” (Bolding by Elder999)

-sigh-

elder999 also wrote:

The problem is he's not a Republican. The problem is his name rhymes with Osama. the problem is that his middle name is Hussein....

That racism exists there can be no doubt, it has in the past and will in the future, but not all disagreement is racist and we risk much when we scream too often that it is in my opinion

Saying he's not a U.S. citizen isn't legitimate criticism, or debate and dissent. The idea that it's got to be racist on the part of some is only common sense-we hardly heard the same sort of fuss about Mr. McCain's actually being born on foreign soil, and it's not because Americans were less ignorant about the legality of those circumstances........

....may as well be accusing me of being racist..

 

[MBuzzy]

Wow....I really have to comment on this one. As an active duty military member, I can say that this "officer" is a disgrace to the US armed services. He is in violation of every second of training and LAW possible and has no right to serve. I am shocked that an officer would bring such a suit. It is a good thing that he is prepared for the "pain of court-martial" because I'm sure he will see it. I will withhold my real opinion of why he is bringing this suit - but I am sure that it has nothing to do with The President's eligibility.

As for The President's eligibility, the man has the highest security clearance available. He was therefore investigated. When I got my SECRET (lowest level security clearance) clearance they came and talked to my friends and family and pulled every document and record that I ever had.....what do you think they do for more highly classified clearances?

This is the exact reason why I don't comment on any thread related to the current commander-in-chief. It is against the law for me to make any public comment in any way against the CinC. Just as it is every other military member.

 

[Tez3]

We have had a couple of army officers who wanted to make public their complaints about the wars and the way the government has handled them. To do so honourably they resigned their commissions first, then they could talk as private citizens. If this American officer felt strongly about this he should have resigned first.

Is he perhaps being used?

 

[MBuzzy]

We have had a couple of army officers who wanted to make public their complaints about the wars and the way the government has handled them. To do so honourably they resigned their commissions first, then they could talk as private citizens. If this American officer felt strongly about this he should have resigned first.

Is he perhaps being used?

He is most certainly being used by the organization bringing the suit, to his own detriment.

I whole heartedly agree. Private citizens are free to say anything they want. Officers are not. We are bound by the UCMJ which is much more strict than civilian law. By accepting a commission, you are agreeing to living to a more strict standard....if someone doesn't like that, we are a volunteer force...

 

[shesulsa]

There are things that raised doubts tho, to be sure. Claims by family members and officials of foriegn Governments that he was born elsewhere the two biggest that I have heard.

Pride talkin'. Nothing more.

While I would certainly assume that he had the proper background checks, if he is in office thru some conspiricy or misdeed on the part of the Illuminati or Masons or Jack Bauer that check could have been faked and or bypassed. I just don't have enough tin foil left to believe that anymore.

Ditto.

His contention is that as an active member of the U.S. military, he is required to follow orders from a sitting president, and he needs – on pain of court-martial – to know that Obama is eligible.

"I implore all service-members and citizens to contact their senators and representatives and demand that they require Mr. Obama prove his eligibility. Our Constitution and our great nation must not be allowed to be disgraced," he wrote.

What was it the republicans were saying when certain soldiers filed for Conscientious Objector status at the start of the war with Iraq? What was it? Oh that's right - 'your commander-in-chief has given you an order; follow it.' I remember the smears from the right for those who could not stand to hear any kind of objection to the Iraq war whatsoever. If Lt. Easterling is worried about being under fire, he should file suit against Dubya for war crimes - that's the man that put him there.


The document has been seen, checked, verified many times over. That's probably why the cases are being denied and/or dismissed.

Guess what peeps? We have a black president ...

GET OVER IT ALREADY!!

 

[KELLYG]

Here is an interesting twist. I personally have a certificate of live birth that resembles the one tez3 listed in one of her posts. But I also have a birth certificate. The birth certificate is the original that has fathers, name, mothers name, date day and time of delivery, weight and inches in length as well as feet print, the name and signature of the attending physic an, hospital and hospital location and religion etc. If this document were presented for review it would quell some of the disputes. There was also some insinuation that when Mr Obama's mother remarried that Mr. Obama was adopted and became a de-facto citizen of the country his step dad was from due to Obama being under age?

 

[elder999]

Here is an interesting twist. I personally have a certificate of live birth that resembles the one tez3 listed in one of her posts. But I also have a birth certificate. The birth certificate is the original that has fathers, name, mothers name, date day and time of delivery, weight and inches in length as well as feet print, the name and signature of the attending physic an, hospital and hospital location and religion etc.

Were you born in Hawaii? The nature of that document varies from state to state.

There was also some insinuation that when Mr Obama's mother remarried that Mr. Obama was adopted and became a de-facto citizen of the country his step dad was from due to Obama being under age?

Even if he did obtain dual citizenship under such a mechanism (and I'm pretty sure there really wasn't one) that doesn't alter the fact that he was (cue music) Born in the U.S.A.....:lfao:

 

[KELLYG]

The birth certificate that tez3 posted was a (duplicate) certificate of live birth it was not the original. The form if you look at it was created in 2001 and he was born in 1961. This was my point. No I was not born in Hawaii. But my Mother was into genealogy and I have seen several birth certificates from all over and most are very similar to the details listed in the Original birth certificate. We were discussing the soldiers want to receive concrete proof of Obama's birth place, these were some of the issues or mystery's that have clouded Obama's legitimacy. I feel that if a man wants to insure himself that the commander in chief is the commander in chief before he puts himself in the line of fire then he should be able to satisfy himself. After all if you are shot dead in the line of duty there are no do overs.

 

[Archangel M]

If there was any legitimacy to this the Republicans would have been all over it at election time. However it does seem like an easy conspiracy theory to disprove and I dont understand why Obama's "people" haven't just "put a stake in it"

I also think that this isnt very "new". When I was "in" there was widespread disdain for Pres Clinton and the political hacks he placed into the military system (Clark).

 

[Carol]

Congratulations Lieutenant Easterling! You've gotten your name in publications and blogs around the world and captured the attention of the entire U.S. Military (even though they are kinda busy at the moment.) What are you going to do next?

"I'm going to Disne...." errrrrr.....never mind.

Sorry, I continue to wish President Obama well, but I am not a fan of his, and after hearing his "I have not yet begun to spend" implications in his speech last night, I am even less of a fan. But what this Lieutenant is doing is nothing more than political posturing, pure and simple. What's even worse is that he is indulging his own opinion at the risk of the moral of the folks that have pledged selflessly to serve our nation regardless of who got elected.

Again I ask...where is the conservative leadership of a person like Newt Gingrich, that bravely stepped forward with ideas such as the Contract With America, stating this is what we're going to do, this is how we are going to do it, this is why we are going to do it. Where has the conservative tenet of rugged individualism gone? Is this the best we can do is hand wringing and name calling? It is going to be ideas, strength, and leadership that put more conservatives in office...not "Boo hoo hoo the ethnic guy won."

18 months to go to the midterm election and the conservatives are still licking their wounds and crying. Un-frikkin-believable. This is not leadership.

 

[Brian King]

elder999 also wrote:

The problem is he's not a Republican. The problem is his name rhymes with Osama. the problem is that his middle name is Hussein....

I agree with you sir that these are the main reasons the irrational fringe have latched on to this insane idea and cause. I did not feel the need to address these and that was a mistake that brings about confusion. It was laziness and trying accomplish more than I really have time for on my part.

“Saying he's not a U.S. citizen isn't legitimate criticism, or debate and dissent. The idea that it's got to be racist on the part of some is only common sense-we hardly heard the same sort of fuss about Mr. McCain's actually being born on foreign soil, and it's not because Americans were less ignorant about the legality of those circumstances........”

I disagree as we have both agreed that it is due to the fact of his name rhyming with Osama (spit) that his middle name is Hussein and that he is not Republican. I will add that he is not third party to the ‘not Republican’ complaint as many of those trying for court battles and petitions on this issue are third partiers. I will also add the fact that he was raised and schooled as a Muslim in his early childhood years also has the fringe in a tizzy. I did not see the same level of irrational fear and hatred offered when Powell was in the running, or any of the other candidates of color have ran in the past. I did see this level against umm religious types running. I am thinking Kennedy specifically and the Mormon (my apologies I am drawing a blank on his name and am running very late for work) who ran as Republican during this race. Rather than crying racism which I cannot agree with I do think the cry of religious bigotries could be argued and better made than the charge of racism. That some on the fringe side are racist is no doubt but I hardly think a majority or even a large percentage.

“....may as well be accusing me of being racist..”

Whatever
Yawn if you wish to claim victim hood have fun with it sir but for me it is a boring silly stupid tactic that reflects upon those that use it and on my part does not shut down the conversation/dialog from any kind of guilt or acceptance of the charge but from the acceptance that it is too much work conversing with deliberate ignorance and those who wish to wallow in it.

On the issue of the LT and whether our President was legally elected I think we agree more than disagree. I do not think the LT and those on that fringe are racially motivated you do. I can live with that. I can call the LT derelict in duty and judge him as dishonorable but I cannot call him a racist and will not until he proves otherwise. We have different standards on drawing and dropping the race card. I think it is a valid card to be played but only when it is needed and is true but if played to often lessen its impact and validity.

So if you were offended and thought I was calling you a racist, I was not but I am amused that you pulled out the card.

Regards
Brian King

 

[Tez3]

The birth certificate that tez3 posted was a (duplicate) certificate of live birth it was not the original. The form if you look at it was created in 2001 and he was born in 1961. This was my point. No I was not born in Hawaii. But my Mother was into genealogy and I have seen several birth certificates from all over and most are very similar to the details listed in the Original birth certificate. We were discussing the soldiers want to receive concrete proof of Obama's birth place, these were some of the issues or mystery's that have clouded Obama's legitimacy. I feel that if a man wants to insure himself that the commander in chief is the commander in chief before he puts himself in the line of fire then he should be able to satisfy himself. After all if you are shot dead in the line of duty there are no do overs.

I can't imagine bureauracy in your country being any different from ours so I don't think you would be able to get a duplicate of any document without having to jump through a few hoops and prove you were entitled to have it.
If you have doubts about your commander in chief you resign, simple as.

 

[Brian King]

Archangel M wrote:

"I dont understand why Obama's "people" haven't just "put a stake in it" "

Really?
I think it is good politics on their part. As long as these fringe types are out there screaming their idiocy the administration can tie these nuts to any real dissent and doing so de-legitimize that dissent. If I argue about a position the administration is taking they can come on and say “not true it is just like those that keep bringing up I am not an American blah blah blah) I now have to defend that I do not think he is not an American I am not like those fringe guys and try to point out he did not offer rebuttal or even address the complaint/dissent. They can use these fringe groups to tarnish the reputation of any that oppose their ideas. I imagine that they want them around for a very long time. My opinion your mileage may vary.

Regard
Brian King

 

[shesulsa]

But again ... it's been said that people here don't think it's racially inclined ... but the McCain thing was proven and not even murmured about afterward. These issues don't seem to carry as much weight with whites as they do blacks. You can deny it all you want ... but it's there and this must ultimately be dealt with.

*side note: I watched "What would you do?" with John Quinones last night and when three white youths were publicly trashing a car, 911 received three phone calls: one regarding the kids and the car, two about three blacks asleep in a car in a parking lot nearby. Those three black people were family members of one of three black actors that replaced the three white boys. Now when these boys were doing the very same thing to the car, 911 was hit with call after call after call. Racism - it's out there.*