Soldier defies President.

[arnisador]

I think that the Lt in question, since he is actively serving our country, should be able to say what he wants. He probably has more rights to it than I

That's just not the law (i., the UCMJ).

If the military decides whether it wants to serve the current leader or no, there's chaos. Look at all the third-world countries whose militaries continually overthrow their leader. The professionalim and loyalty of the officer corps is one of the reasons why we're different. Our officers follow their CinC...respecting the office even if they dislike the officeholder.

 

[CanuckMA]

TAZ3.
I was just pointing out that there are two different types of birth records
1 certificate of live birth 2 birth certificate. There is no problem in getting a certificate of live birth but the birth certificate is the original.

Must be a jurisdictional thing then because here, the hospital fills a certificate of live birth that the family must register with the province. The extract requested from the province is called a birth certificate.

 

[searcher]

How long ago was that, Searcher?

I would have to go back and look, but it was brought to my attention in October IIRC.

I try to remind everyone when they bring up the party thing that it was HIS party that first launched the investigation.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I try to remind everyone when they bring up the party thing that it was HIS party that first launched the investigation.

You mean it was Phil Berg that brought the suit? I'm confused.

 

[elder999]

You mean it was Phil Berg that brought the suit? I'm confused.

Phil Berg, world class nutjob and litigious git, was a Hillary supporter who brought suit back in August 2008, which was pretty much rejected by the Supreme Court, and sits in a Third District Court of Appeals limbo..... Several other suits have been filed, but the chief obstacle to them has been lack of standing: none of the litigants was actually running for President, or a member of the Electoral College, except for Alan Keyes, who filed a suit in Nov, 2008.

You can read the short story on just how nuts Philip J. Berg is here, and, for once, Wikipedia also seems to have all the info on all the cases currently filed challenging Obama's citizenship.

I have no doubt that there'll be more, since he's not a Repulican, his last name rhymes with Osama, his middle name is Hussein, and he's black, and I don't think any of those things are going to change in the next four years.....:lfao:

 

[Gordon Nore]

Phil Berg, world class nutjob and litigious git, was a Hillary supporter who brought suit back in August 2008, which was pretty much rejected by the Supreme Court, and sits in a Third District Court of Appeals limbo..... Several other suits have been filed, but the chief obstacle to them has been lack of standing: none of the litigants was actually running for President, or a member of the Electoral College, except for Alan Keyes, who filed a suit in Nov, 2008.

I'm familiar with the story from the other thread we had on this subject. I had the pleasure of reading up on Mr Berg at the time. My question had to do with Seacher's comment:

I try to remind everyone when they bring up the party thing that it was HIS party that first launched the investigation.

I was trying to query Seacrher on what investigation he was talking about, unless he was simply referring to Berg's ill-fated suit. Your post above clarifies that -- no one who's requested the President Obama's documents has the standing to ask for them, so, on that level, there hasn't been an investigation. Thanks, Elder.

I have no doubt that there'll be more, since he's not a Repulican, his last name rhymes with Osama, his middle name is Hussein, and he's black, and I don't think any of those things are going to change in the next four years.....:lfao:

Word.

 

[crushing]

Maybe Madam Secretary Clinton can make a call to Madman Superfan Berg and ask him to please just MoveOn?

 

[elder999]

Now it is U.S. Armed Forces personnel wanting to know if his birth certificate is that of a U.S. born citizen – on pain of court-martial – to know that Obama is eligible.

How more patriotic can you get than that ?

Blessed be Lieutenant Scott Easterling's name and memory forever for challenging the POTUS on pain of court martial. .

Well, that's sort of like the "moral stand" taken by hundreds of soldiers that refuse orders to Iraq......totally illegal.

 

[jarrod]

edited for discretion.

jf

 

[firerex]

AMEN soldier

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Barack Obama is my President. I did not vote for him, and I'm not altogether happy about it, but he is the duly-elected President of the United States. He is also a natural-born citizen.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

I regard this as fact and not opinion.

Everyone is entitled their own opinions, but I believe the soldier is treading on dangerous ground. His oath is indeed to the Constitution, but members of the military subject to the UCMJ are not entitled to interpret it as they wish.

 

[Twin Fist]

Elder,
with respect, i think you are wrong when you say it is about race.

 

[Makalakumu]

Elder,
with respect, i think you are wrong when you say it is about race.

I agree with you, but not completely. I think it is impossible to rule out race as a factor in all cases. You know as well as I that there are going to be some nut cases who will hold THAT against him no matter what.

In this case, I think the major contributing factor is just the general rancor that exists between the parties. The sheer hatred on both sides is completely irrational.

 

[elder999]

Elder,
with respect, i think you are wrong when you say it is about race.

Well, of course you do.

 

[Twin Fist]

come on Elder, you know me better than that. That was dismissive and condescending. You are better than that, and you KNOW I aint like that.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I agree with you, but not completely. I think it is impossible to rule out race as a factor in all cases. You know as well as I that there are going to be some nut cases who will hold THAT against him no matter what.

In this case, I think the major contributing factor is just the general rancor that exists between the parties. The sheer hatred on both sides is completely irrational.

Agreed. And, as a fellow North American, I would add, here: It's either never about race, or it's always about race.

In this instance, yep, race is a factor. This is an example of the second tier citizenship of people of colour in North America. Because I am Caucasion, people don't ask me where I'm from, and how I define myself nationally is never questioned. The President is black and is automatically from someplace else. I believe Senator McCain was born abroad on a military base.

Who's demaning his birth certifcate? Nobody. McCain is white and sounds American.

Who's asking for Mr Obama's papers? Well, nobody who has the right to demand them. Phil Berg's name came up -- Phil Berg has no standing to demand anybody's papers.

This LT who's challenging the President. Somehow he has more credibility because he's got a couple of butter bars on his shoulders? Hell, no. He's supposed to defend a Constitution based on personal liberty, and so he has no credibility in demanding to see the 'papers' of a fellow US citizen -- Presdent or otherwise.

 

[Carol]

Agreed. And, as a fellow North American, I would add, here: It's either never about race, or it's always about race.

In this instance, yep, race is a factor. This is an example of the second tier citizenship of people of colour in North America. Because I am Caucasion, people don't ask me where I'm from, and how I define myself nationally is never questioned. The President is black and is automatically from someplace else. I believe Senator McCain was born abroad on a military base.

Who's demaning his birth certifcate? Nobody. McCain is white and sounds American.

That's actually not the case Gordon. Plenty of people did question Senator McCain. He had a senatorial hearing to determine his eligibility to run for president. The reason why there was not a huge outcry about it was because OPM did their job. The background check raised a flag for McCain that wasn't raised for Obama, and our government did its proper follow up by brining the matter before a hearing.


I don't think its all about race. I know there are plenty of people out there with racial issues, but there are also folks that are just as rabid about politics. And there are also folks that have their own motives. Mr. Berg made no secret of being a fervent Hillary supporter but he's also the kind of attorney that takes on lawsuits for the publicity. We're too large and too diverse of a people for a one-size-fits all reason. :asian:

 

[elder999]

come on Elder, you know me better than that. That was dismissive and condescending. You are better than that, and you KNOW I aint like that.

Better than what?

Seriously, don't intend anything dismissive of condescending, and don't mean to make it personal, but you've as much as said in the past that if I told you the sky was blue you'd have to check for yourself..:lfao:

I mean, when don't you think I'm wrong?

In any case, see this video of Phil Berg explaining his "case". Pay special attention about 5:40 in. Before you do that, though, ask yourself:

Why does Barack Obama have to hide his "Muslim background?" Why is there so much discussion about whether he's "black" or "half-black " (which half? :lfao: ) or why no one calls him "half-white?"

I'm not calling Berg a racist, and I don't believe that his motivations are racist. However, a great deal of the interest in all this.....stuff...is racist. Case in point, the comments on that youtube video:

There's an excellent comparison between Hitler's speech in the parade grounds at Nürnberg and Osambo's narcissistic Invesco and Grant Park foolishness.

The mudshark thing really messes with Obongo's head. ........... Being disturbed with abandonment issues doubled with his tramp mammy cooing her deviance to her own child, .......

These go on in a similar vein for pages-though mostly from the same three or four people, and I've been really discreet in what I quoted-see for yourself. While those people aren't directly involved in the suits, they are the people those actions are meant to arouse. Why? Well, to keep people distracted from the real things they need to be concerned about as far as Obama goes. It doesn't matter if he was or wasn't a Muslim, or if he'll release his college papers, and the OPM knows he's a natural born citizen. What matters is that he can accomplish his agenda while people are distracted by B.S. like this.......

If people are distracted by their fear of him: fear that he's a closet Muslim, that he's some sort of non-citizen "Manchurian Negro," that he's an Arab, that he's a Marxist, then they pay less attention to the real issues.....

 

[Gordon Nore]

That's actually not the case Gordon. Plenty of people did question Senator McCain. He had a senatorial hearing to determine his eligibility to run for president. The reason why there was not a huge outcry about it was because OPM did their job. The background check raised a flag for McCain that wasn't raised for Obama, and our government did its proper follow up by brining the matter before a hearing.

My passion for liberty -- Liberty! Hell, I'm not even American -- got the better of me. I stand corrected on the matter of John McCain's eligibility, and I thank you for your clarification. I had not known it was ever an issue. :asian:

McCain's documentation, as you report, was asked for and vetted by the proper authorities. What I'm getting at is, he didn't have to pull out his wallet and show his birth certificate to some nimrod with blog.

OPM?

I don't think its all about race. I know there are plenty of people out there with racial issues, but there are also folks that are just as rabid about politics. And there are also folks that have their own motives. Mr. Berg made no secret of being a fervent Hillary supporter but he's also the kind of attorney that takes on lawsuits for the publicity. We're too large and too diverse of a people for a one-size-fits all reason. :asian:

I don't presume that all Americans who oppose the President are racist. I don't assume that everyone who voted from his is not a racist. Opposing ones leader is a sign of healthy functional democracy. Lots of people seem to dislike him because of his leftward drift from Capitalism. A lot of folks don't like him cuz he's smart. A margin of the population would like to burn a cross on the White House lawn, and then there are those who wouldn't do that, but they might toast a marshmallow for the occasion.

What I find disturbing about the birth certificate discussion is the way it balances against something like the vast outrage over Walmart and other retailers stopping shoppers and making them prove they haven't stolen anything. On that thread, the righteous indignation is piled high and deep. I know cuz I helped to pile it. http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73478&highlight=Walmart

So, to me, it's very much the same thing. I do not acknowledge the right of the Best Buy guy with the hilighter to examine my property. The President of the United States hasn't yielded his birth certificate to a bunch of people who don't have the standing to demand it.

Next we'll be hearing from the Octomom on Obama's citizenship.

It makes all the sense in the world to me that Obama should do nothing that even implies that he is acquiescing to Berg or to any other numbskull who is seeking attention. Obama can't be seen blinking. He can't afford it. As Aaron has pointed out in two different threads, the President has been cleared. He's the boss. If there is to be a public disclosure of Obama's creds, it has to be done the way it was done with McCain.

 

[elder999]

OPM?.

Office of Personnel Management. The federal dipwads we call Revenge of the "C" Student. Diligent investigators who determine that you are who you say you are, cam do what you say you can do, have been where you say you've been, pay the people who say that you owe them, pay your taxes (???!?!!!), don't drink too much, don't hang out with foreign parties of adverse interest, don't use illegal drugs, don't beat your wife, don't etc., etc., etc.....the same ones that would have raised holy hell within the first weeks of 2008 if they'd caught even a hint of impropriety in terms of Obama's being born- as everyone seems to accept but the truly rabid and crazy-in Hawaii.