Sokeship Council, Grandmaster or NOT????

[James Kovacich]

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Is that considered “slim” in America now?

2)[font=&quot] [/font]In Okinawa 70 is not that old. My teacher is in his mid 70’s and moves like a 40 year old.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Here is something not usually done in the west…..if you don’t train for a while in a Japanese dojo you move down to white belt and stay there until your instructor feels otherwise. Knowledge is useless without practice. If you don’t use it you lose it.


On the left you can see a guy that typifies the self proclaimed American “Grandmaster/Soke” major nut job named Peter Urban, who is he supposed to be Count Dracula or Houdini?

I said Hanshi Angel does not have a gut, like you mentioned. Beleive it or not, Hanshi has spent a lot of time pumping iron and at that time his chest still had a good pump. I have a picture of him in a t-shirt from I think a little before that pic was taken and his chest is buffed.

 

[RRouuselot]

I found this comment particularly interesting:


In addition to Hanshi Angel's almost 50 years of Martial Arts experience, the support of the WHFSC, and his unique abilities he provides a safe haven of support and recognition to the members of the National College of Martial Arts. When asked about what he felt qualified him to promote artists from styles other than his own, he retorted with the following question, "Do you think that after fifty years of martial arts experience that I am not able to recognize ability or the lack thereof?"

Kind of an arrogant statement. So by his logic I guess he could go to China and grade all the kung fu practitioners there as well, and then when he is done there shoot over to Okinawa and grade some of the people there as well….then maybe shoot over to Japan and grade some of the sword folks there like Otake sensei……..give me a break

A teenager can “recognize ability or a lack there of” ........

 

[James Kovacich]

And how many use the title Soke?

I don't think any but most are a part of the World Head of Hamily Sokeship. I have not heard Hanshi Angel yde the word Soke.

Wally Jay has designated 2 Soke Dai.

 

[RRouuselot]

I said Hanshi Angel does not have a gut, like you mentioned.

I am looking at it right now in this photo......
There are 3 quick and easy places to see if someone is over weight.

Their neck, their gut and their ***….

 

[RRouuselot]

Wally Jay has designated 2 Soke Dai.

Again another misuse of Japanese words.......

 

[RRouuselot]

I don't think any but most are a part of the World Head of Hamily Sokeship.

The bogus Soke factory.............

 

[James Kovacich]

I found this comment particularly interesting:


In addition to Hanshi Angel's almost 50 years of Martial Arts experience, the support of the WHFSC, and his unique abilities he provides a safe haven of support and recognition to the members of the National College of Martial Arts. When asked about what he felt qualified him to promote artists from styles other than his own, he retorted with the following question, "Do you think that after fifty years of martial arts experience that I am not able to recognize ability or the lack thereof?"

Kind of an arrogant statement. So by his logic I guess he could go to China and grade all the kung fu practitioners there as well, and then when he is done there shoot over to Okinawa and grade some of the people there as well….then maybe shoot over to Japan and grade some of the sword folks there like Otake sensei……..give me a break

A teenager can “recognize ability or a lack there of” ........

Thats not they way it goes. Members only move up over time either in
1) Hanshi's Tenshi Goju or
2) They become head of their own system and promote in "their own system" over time. Also, the NCMA has members of low and high ranks in many martial arts. He helps and guides one in running their own organization. He is qualified to do that.

And it is for the better of martial arts because without his guidance they would do it anyway and they may or may not do a good job.

"Falling Out" happens all the time and martial artsists become orphaned.

 

[James Kovacich]

Again another misuse of Japanese words.......

I may have said it wrong.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

sometimes i think martial artists become orphaned for a reason.
there are thousands of people that work for GM, the disgruntled employees arent rushing out to start up new car companies.

lol

 

[James Kovacich]

What some may seem as arrogance, others may see differant. I know one person on this board, a 7th Dan who told me he called Hanshi to ask him about a promotion he made.

Hanshi told him something like. You mind your store and I'll mind mine.

He probably felt that he owed this individulal nothing especially because it is disrespectful to a question a senior about his decisions in his own organization.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I came to the conclusion that martial artists misuse any title they can get ahold of.

We've already discussed "Soke" to death, how it is misused by a group of individuals.
We've covered the use of "sensei" by those teaching non Japanese arts.

Now I'm seeing "Hanshi" all over the place. On another thread this was posted:

Hanshi - Another title often abused by ignorant Westerners.
Hanshi are Samurai in the service of the han.
What is the han?

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_(feudal_domain)
The Han (&#34281 were the fiefs of feudal clans of Japan that existed during all the Edo period and for a few years after the Meiji Restoration. The number of han varied; typically, there were around 300 han in the Edo period. Most han were led by a daimyo with an assessment of 10,000 koku or more. The daimyo swore loyalty to the shogun. Sometimes a powerful daimyo let a man govern a domain over 10,000 koku. Those men were definitely not daimyo but their domains were sometimes called han.

The richest han was the Kaga han with 1 millon koku. It was situated in Kaga, Etchu and Noto Provinces.

In July, 1871, all the han were disbanded in favor of the formation of prefectures.

So...what is the correct modern usage of the term Hanshi?

Actually, is there a list of the correct titles for instructors in the arts anywhere, and if not, can we put one together? Might help clear up much of the disputes.

 

[James Kovacich]

sometimes i think martial artists become orphaned for a reason.
there are thousands of people that work for GM, the disgruntled employees arent rushing out to start up new car companies.

lol

If they had the knowledge and the money. They probably would. :uhyeah:

 

[RRouuselot]

Now I'm seeing "Hanshi" all over the place. On another thread this was posted:


So...what is the correct modern usage of the term Hanshi?

Actually, is there a list of the correct titles for instructors in the arts anywhere, and if not, can we put one together? Might help clear up much of the disputes.

Ok, someone has tried to use a Romanized spelling to get a Japanese definition. It doesn’t work very well.

Hanshi in the martial arts sense and han as in the feudal Japan sense are different kanji.

It’s like saying cot and caught mean the same thing since they sound the same.

In many MA systems there are levels for instructors, Renshi, Kyoshi, and Hanshi,

The ending “shi” is the same on all of them. Here are some lose translations of the above three.

Renshi = practice instructor

Kyoshi = teching instructor

Hanshi = “model instructor”, I think a better definition might be “Head instructor”.....usually 8th or 9th dan.
HOWEVER, just because you have an 8th or 9th dan doesn’t mean you are a Hanshi.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Heh. Yet another example of the "accuracy" of Wiki. LOL

 

[RRouuselot]

Heh. Yet another example of the "accuracy" of Wiki. LOL

Their definition was not wrong, it’s just hard to go from Romanization to kanji.

I think they should give several definitions.

 

[MichiganTKD]

My Instructor has practiced Tae Kwon Do for almost 50 years, starting in Korea in the 1950's. He holds the rank of 9th Dan from the Kukkiwon. He is an advisor to the World Tae Kwon Do Federation, and talks regularly with Chung Do Kwan President Mr. Uhm.
The reason I am telling you this is because he would be the first to tell you he does not know Karate or Kung Fu, except possibly a passing knowlege born out of curiosity. He would also be the first to tell you he is not qualified to judge or promote karate, kung fu, or any other students besides Tae Kwon Do. Each of those arts has their particular way of doing things that only a recognized instructor could judge and promote. This is a man who teaches senior level Tae Kwon Do black belts and has given seminars around the world including Vietnam, Hong Kong, and Japan.
The idea that a karate instructor, who does NOT practice kung fu or Tae Kwon Do and whose only dealing with practitioners of those arts is belonging to a "Soke Council", would be qualified to judge and promote them is:
1. Laughable
2. Arrogant
3. Dishonest

If a Tae Kwon Do Grandmaster with 50 years of experience does not consider himself qualified to judge non-TKD students, who the hell does this guy think he is?

 

[VSanhodo]

My Instructor has practiced Tae Kwon Do for almost 50 years, starting in Korea in the 1950's. He holds the rank of 9th Dan from the Kukkiwon. He is an advisor to the World Tae Kwon Do Federation, and talks regularly with Chung Do Kwan President Mr. Uhm.
The reason I am telling you this is because he would be the first to tell you he does not know Karate or Kung Fu, except possibly a passing knowlege born out of curiosity. He would also be the first to tell you he is not qualified to judge or promote karate, kung fu, or any other students besides Tae Kwon Do. Each of those arts has their particular way of doing things that only a recognized instructor could judge and promote. This is a man who teaches senior level Tae Kwon Do black belts and has given seminars around the world including Vietnam, Hong Kong, and Japan.
The idea that a karate instructor, who does NOT practice kung fu or Tae Kwon Do and whose only dealing with practitioners of those arts is belonging to a "Soke Council", would be qualified to judge and promote them is:
1. Laughable
2. Arrogant
3. Dishonest

If a Tae Kwon Do Grandmaster with 50 years of experience does not consider himself qualified to judge non-TKD students, who the hell does this guy think he is?

Wow, I have no idea who your instructor is but I like him already.
Thanks again for your posts and please keep them coming.

San

 

[Makalakumu]

My Instructor has practiced Tae Kwon Do for almost 50 years, starting in Korea in the 1950's. He holds the rank of 9th Dan from the Kukkiwon. He is an advisor to the World Tae Kwon Do Federation, and talks regularly with Chung Do Kwan President Mr. Uhm.
The reason I am telling you this is because he would be the first to tell you he does not know Karate or Kung Fu, except possibly a passing knowlege born out of curiosity. He would also be the first to tell you he is not qualified to judge or promote karate, kung fu, or any other students besides Tae Kwon Do. Each of those arts has their particular way of doing things that only a recognized instructor could judge and promote. This is a man who teaches senior level Tae Kwon Do black belts and has given seminars around the world including Vietnam, Hong Kong, and Japan.
The idea that a karate instructor, who does NOT practice kung fu or Tae Kwon Do and whose only dealing with practitioners of those arts is belonging to a "Soke Council", would be qualified to judge and promote them is:
1. Laughable
2. Arrogant
3. Dishonest

If a Tae Kwon Do Grandmaster with 50 years of experience does not consider himself qualified to judge non-TKD students, who the hell does this guy think he is?

I imagine your teacher is very familiar with what a good side kick looks like. And I am convinced that he could teach me a great many things about side kicks despite training in Tang Soo Do. How many other arts practice side kicks?

In the same vien, when I practice Naihanchi hyung and I perform a joint locking application, my 6th degree black belt Jui Jutsu professor may be able to teach me a great deal about performing that particular application.

See where I am going with this???

The art is one thing, the technique is another. No art owns a technique. Sitting in front of a panel of experts in various arts and demonstrating can be one of the most powerful experiences in your personal education in the Martial Arts.

 

[searcher]

Ok, someone has tried to use a Romanized spelling to get a Japanese definition. It doesn’t work very well.

Hanshi in the martial arts sense and han as in the feudal Japan sense are different kanji.

It’s like saying cot and caught mean the same thing since they sound the same.

In many MA systems there are levels for instructors, Renshi, Kyoshi, and Hanshi,

The ending “shi” is the same on all of them. Here are some lose translations of the above three.

Renshi = practice instructor

Kyoshi = teching instructor

Hanshi = “model instructor”, I think a better definition might be “Head instructor”.....usually 8th or 9th dan.
HOWEVER, just because you have an 8th or 9th dan doesn’t mean you are a Hanshi.

This is the way it was explained to me as well. Many Martial artists are assuming these positions without having them bestowed on them, as it is required.

I never thought I would be defending your position.

 

[arnisador]

In Feliks Hoff's Kyudo book, he states the following meanings and requirements for the "honorary" titles renshi, kyoshi, and hanshi (pgs. 216-8 of my edition), which I have paraphrased for brevity:

Hanshi: In art and technique, an example for others; 8th dan plus good character and an outstanding example in kyudo.

Kyoshi: Very good teaching; 6th dan and a renshi plus good character, teaching ability, skill, and knowledge.

Renshi: Good teaching; 5th dan plus ability to teach, polished skill, and must have achieved noteworthy results.

Bear in mind, there are separate requirements for the dan degrees themselves.