Social Media Naysayers

[Steve]

I have absolutely no parameters to say anything about being good or bad as I don't know anything on how to handle a stick, but the guys is damn athletic! The first jump alone would fit ok in a martial art movie. The sheer ability with the stick is very good, at least to my ignorant eyes.

I completely agree.

I do have some questions - why one should jump that way (I mean, if the point is to retreat, can't you can just walk back and it's less effort?) or swirl the stick that way (maybe the idea is to confuse the opponent?) or move it back and forth one's body - I was under the impression that the business bit should always be towards your opponent.

Yeah. I don’t know what the purpose is. But then again, we don’t do that kata, so we can’t possibly understand the bunkai. It takes a long time to develop that kind of deep understanding.

It kinds reminds me of the nunchuk masters who are incredible at tricks, as opposite to actually whacking someone with a nunchuck that requires much simpler movements overall (but often they are good _also_ at the simpler movements, of course. Showoff is fun and by itself means little). But as said, I dont know anything about sticks

It’s a kind of confirmation bias. it might be flashy and also effective. But we can’t tell just by looking at it. Might just be crap. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Steve]

This guy is very good at what he's doing, except it's not MA. I agree also that there's intent, but the intent is to entertain and exhibit his dexterity. Most of the moves have no power nor combat application - indeed, they are counterproductive to combat. Many of the moves leave him extremely vulnerable without guard or immediate access to strike or block and make no sense in a combat scenario. His performance is 90% entertainment. At this he was very skilled.

Not martial arts? I disagree. At least as the term “martial art” is applied broadly to describe combat adjacent activities where folks learn martial like skills.

Just to be clear, I understand this is a well tread path. I was just building on drop bears post lightheartedly. But I’m frankly a little surprised that this kind of gate keeping still exists. Don’t get me wrong. I’m sure the specific standards for judging the kata are different, as you demonstrated above. I just don’t think either standard has much to do with “combat.”

and to be clear, I’m not down on kata. I’m all for it. All of it. Metaphorically speaking, It’s like if a bunch of people believed that the only real dancing was ballet and ballroom, and dismissed breakdancing. i have heard things to this effect.

I’m an inclusive guy. I also think tae bo is a martial art, as much as tai chi.

 

[Nachi]

Here's an example:

https://fb.watch/vg83IALUZn

Do you think he's unworthy of his black belt, as so many people in the comments are suggesting? Or are these guys just a bunch of haters?

Facebook keeps offering me videos from this particular page.
So I have seen quite a few and usually, I just feel like facepalming when watching them. They apparently post a lot of videos of people at this type of competition where they just do kata for the fancy stuff, they exaggerate Kiai to an extreme degree and while some of the people clearly have a lot of skill, I find it really hard to watch, because from my TMA background, I just cannot comprehend it.
Some of these competitors have amamzhing acrobatic skills - a lot of jumping kicks, etc., where they obviously put a lot of effort, but their "ordinary" techniques, like punches, etc. are lacking in power, focus and kime.

People keep commenting negatively to these and I honestly don't like them, either, just because the performer's focus and purpose is completely different to what I am trying to see in MA and it makes me a little sad that sometimes really talented people would compete in this way.

This particular video you posted looks like an exception among the others from that particular page. It is not very flashy and the kiai is even normal. I would think the guy deserves his black belt, but I wonder to which degree people are already fired up from seeing the other videos at this site. If that could be an influence for the hateful comments.

And yes, sadly, people tend to hate on other martial arts. Maybe different arts have different focus that doesn't coincide.

 

[drop bear]

You mean like gymnastics? Like dancing competitions? Like figure skating? Like The Chelsea Flower Show? Like Japanese calligraphy competitions? Like Dressage? Virtually every competitive endeavour relies on subjective judging from somebody else and, other than competitions where person attempt to permanently damage each other’s brains into unconsciousness or inflict unbearable pain into submission, everything is judged.

Yep. Like all those things

 

[Steve]

Facebook keeps offering me videos from this particular page.
So I have seen quite a few and usually, I just feel like facepalming when watching them. They apparently post a lot of videos of people at this type of competition where they just do kata for the fancy stuff, they exaggerate Kiai to an extreme degree and while some of the people clearly have a lot of skill, I find it really hard to watch, because from my TMA background, I just cannot comprehend it.
Some of these competitors have amamzhing acrobatic skills - a lot of jumping kicks, etc., where they obviously put a lot of effort, but their "ordinary" techniques, like punches, etc. are lacking in power, focus and kime.

People keep commenting negatively to these and I honestly don't like them, either, just because the performer's focus and purpose is completely different to what I am trying to see in MA and it makes me a little sad that sometimes really talented people would compete in this way.

This particular video you posted looks like an exception among the others from that particular page. It is not very flashy and the kiai is even normal. I would think the guy deserves his black belt, but I wonder to which degree people are already fired up from seeing the other videos at this site. If that could be an influence for the hateful comments.

And yes, sadly, people tend to hate on other martial arts. Maybe different arts have different focus that doesn't coincide.

Aren’t you kind of just hating on other martial arts for most of this post?

 

[isshinryuronin]

Not martial arts? I disagree. At least as the term “martial art” is applied broadly to describe combat adjacent activities where folks learn martial like skills.

There is a chasm between "martial art skill" and "martial like skill." You see it as a crack in the sidewalk. In that extreme bo kata video there were more baton twirling moves than combat moves: twirling. throwing staff into the air. catching behind back. rolling it around the neck. acrobatics. etc. I saw many of these same moves in this summer's Olympics, rhythmic dance competition!! None of this is "martial."

 

[Steve]

Yep. Like all those things

This is like gymnastics fans saying rhythmic gymnastics isn’t “real” gymnastics.

There is a chasm between "martial art skill" and "martial like skill." You see it as a crack in the sidewalk. In that extreme bo kata video there were more baton twirling moves than combat moves: twirling. throwing staff into the air. catching behind back. rolling it around the neck. acrobatics. etc. I saw many of these same moves in this summer's Olympics, rhythmic dance competition!! None of this is "martial."

I mean, you’re making my point for me.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I mean, you’re making my point for me.

Which is?

 

[Gyakuto]

are lacking in power, focus and kime.

Yes, it’s the lack of kime (focus). In this video, the participant never definitively finishes any of his strikes in his hast to move onto the next one. He rarely roots his feet to the ground so when he punches his rear leg’s knee collapses in a flicking manner rather than locking forward to drive the punch forward.

Again, he’s not awful and I suspect the instruction to ‘slow down a bit’ and ‘finish your techniques completely’ is all it’d take to make his kata look really good.

 

[Nachi]

Aren’t you kind of just hating on other martial arts for most of this post?

Yeah, well, I am being honest that I don't like those martial arts, or rather, the focus on the competition. But what I was trying to say as well is that I have respect and admiration for the skill like the acrobatics. What I don't like is the theatre around it. Crazy looking faces when shouting kiai for 5 seconds, etc. (usually after a technique with their hands down, so it is not used to add power to the technique, but to look cool, instead) - mostly the stuff that doesn't really have anything to do with their skill and (to me) undermines the seriousness of the presentation of what they had obviously worked so hard for. Yeah, I suppose I am a hater of that.

But I do believe it is partly because my viewpoint is different. If this is the MA I started with, maybe I would see things differently. So I am also trying to say that I know my feelings about it might be a bit unfair, but I just don't like that style of competition.

This is an example.

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From what I can tell, her flying kicks are awesome. I am far from that level, so I can't see faults there, and honestly admire her skill.
But I can tell the hand and elbow strikes lack tension, focus and grounding, so my thougths are that that is not her focus, and I would honestly like the performance much more if she slowed down a little and the techniques were not so rushed and were timed and finished properly instead. I can't help but feel the purpose is to look as fleshy as possible as opposite to useful. That is what I don't like.

 

[drop bear]