So what exactly IS a Taeguek anyway?

[dvcochran]

Yo. Im a less polite person than Gnarlie. Feel free to stop reading right here and go about your business if you want.



I have a question for you. Give me a firsthand example of a disrespectful American teenager. Not by your definition, not by the definitions of South Korean culture, not by the definitions of American culture. Someone who openly challenges other people who deserve their respect. So basically, find me American teenagers who defy their own standards of decency and ethics to disrespect another person.

Respect and what defines it varies so wildly from place to place that it cannot and should not be looked at like a standard. American kids probably are disrespectful, according to South Koreans. Now go ask an American teenager if his friends are disrespectful. Culture is more than nationality, and respect is more than a generalized sense of supremacy wherein people viewed as inferior 'respect', or belittle themselves for the benefit of those who view themselves as better than them.



So basically, you dont want anyone to read any of what you have to say in isolation? Well, sorry if that doesnt float your boat mate, but if you say something im going to read it, im going to take you on your word, and im going to interpret what you have communicated. Did it never occur to you that they are statements in and of themselves, all of which contribute to whatever point it is youre trying to make? If you are reading this, right now, are all my sentences blurring together into one statement, or are they numerous statements being used to communicate with you? This is how conversation happens. Its a long way from verbal communication, but to be fair, in a verbal chat you wouldnt get so many words out of your mouth before the other participants had their own piece/s to pitch. Verbal conversation is much shorter. Textual conversation allows for, in some ways, more specific conversation.



Then explain yourself. And tell me, how do you want people to reply to particular points youve made? Do you want us to just ignore the points youve made whether we agree with them or not, and just agree or disagree with no basis of conversation whatsoever? This is a discussion board. We discuss things. Discussion requires points to be made and those points to be addressed.



But it hasnt been reformed. Were taking your words and replying to what youve said. I repeat: If this were a verbal conversation, id be replying to every single point or statement you made before you could go on to the next one. Thats how conversation works. Im pretty sure thats universal, too. Only difference is that in text, you get to make several statements, which you have whether you want it to be viewed that way or not, which are then replied to with statements of their own.

Have a great day!

I know I am jumping into the middle of the conversation, forgive me.
I agree with most of what you say but I take exception to even the counter-notion here: "Culture is more than nationality, and respect is more than a generalized sense of supremacy wherein people viewed as inferior 'respect', or belittle themselves for the benefit of those who view themselves as better than them." No where in my realm of thinking does such an idea surface. Where is the world does the thought (or counter) of respect enter such an extreme idea? Way, way out in left field. Never is respect belittling. IMHO.

 

[_Simon_]

I know I am jumping into the middle of the conversation, forgive me.
I agree with most of what you say but I take exception to even the counter-notion here: "Culture is more than nationality, and respect is more than a generalized sense of supremacy wherein people viewed as inferior 'respect', or belittle themselves for the benefit of those who view themselves as better than them." No where in my realm of thinking does such an idea surface. Where is the world does the thought (or counter) of respect enter such an extreme idea? Way, way out in left field. Never is respect belittling. IMHO.

(The conversation was from 5 years ago though so I don't reckon you're butting in ;D)

 

[TrueJim]

Actually all these Pinned threads are pretty ancient. One would imagine they're due for an update.

 

[BaehrTKD]

The Taeguk is actually a reference to the Yin/Yang symbol on the Korean flag. It is surrounded by four trigrams, which represent Heaven, Earth, Fire, and Water.

This is interesting. I heard something very different about what the four trigrams mean.

 

[Oily Dragon]

This is interesting. I heard something very different about what the four trigrams mean.

The four trigams on the south Korean flag represent many different things, it depends on how you view a trigram.

The element of the sun is fire.

The element of the heavens is the air.

The element of the moon is water.

The element of the earth is dirt and rocks. That's my element.

 

[BaehrTKD]

The four trigams on the south Korean flag represent many different things, it depends on how you view a trigram.

The element of the sun is fire.

The element of the heavens is the air.

The element of the moon is water.

The element of the earth is dirt and rocks. That's my element.

What I heard is that the bars represent people.

___ (The strong, a solid bar)
--- (The weak, a broken bar)

Therefore, the trigrams mean:

"The strong protect the weak." (Probably through their good leadership and intelligence.)
"The weak protect the strong." (Through sheer numbers, they defend their leaders and keep the system working.)
"The strong stay together." (Strong/wealthy people tend to stay with each other. Think social groups.)
"The weak stay together." (Weak/poor people tend to stay with each other. Think social groups.)

Therefore, to have a great nation, you need all four.

 

[HighKick]

What I heard is that the bars represent people.

___ (The strong, a solid bar)
--- (The weak, a broken bar)

Therefore, the trigrams mean:

"The strong protect the weak." (Probably through their good leadership and intelligence.)
"The weak protect the strong." (Through sheer numbers, they defend their leaders and keep the system working.)
"The strong stay together." (Strong/wealthy people tend to stay with each other. Think social groups.)
"The weak stay together." (Weak/poor people tend to stay with each other. Think social groups.)

Therefore, to have a great nation, you need all four.

That is pure made-up analogy. It could work for inference, but an instructor better know the real meaning.

 

[BaehrTKD]

That is pure made-up analogy. It could work for inference, but an instructor better know the real meaning.

Maybe the meaning has changed over time? I don't know. Elemental theory was debunked by modern science years ago, so maybe they felt it needed a more up-to-date interpretation.

 

[Dirty Dog]

What I heard is that the bars represent people.

The trigrams, and their philosophical meanings, are taken directly from the i ching.

 

[BaehrTKD]

The trigrams, and their philosophical meanings, are taken directly from the i ching.

Okay so out of curiosity, has anyone else heard the meaning that I mentioned above?

 

[isshinryuronin]

The trigrams, and their philosophical meanings, are taken directly from the i ching.

As the early representation of Chinese Taoist philosophy (yin/yang) the trigrams date back thousands of years, so no doubt their original meaning cannot really be known for sure, beyond the 8 trigrams representing elementals such as fire, water, heaven, etc. and whatever attributes were attached to them.

At some point they started stacking one atop the other in pairs, giving 64 representations. Various additional meanings were attached to each, referring to personal attributes, parts of the body, animals, relationships, seasons - all kinds of things. Great for fortune telling or just as a framework for explaining life. I think it's much like the zodiac and astrology.

My point is that after such a long and increasingly complex and mystical evolution, their meanings today can be almost anything one wishes to attach to them, so on a personal basis, the meaning BaehrTKD mentioned has some validity. But in authoritative terms of what they represent in Korea in general and TKD in particular, it's whatever those entities say they mean.

 

[HighKick]

As the early representation of Chinese Taoist philosophy (yin/yang) the trigrams date back thousands of years, so no doubt their original meaning cannot really be known for sure, beyond the 8 trigrams representing elementals such as fire, water, heaven, etc. and whatever attributes were attached to them.

At some point they started stacking one atop the other in pairs, giving 64 representations. Various additional meanings were attached to each, referring to personal attributes, parts of the body, animals, relationships, seasons - all kinds of things. Great for fortune telling or just as a framework for explaining life. I think it's much like the zodiac and astrology.

My point is that after such a long and increasingly complex and mystical evolution, their meanings today can be almost anything one wishes to attach to them, so on a personal basis, the meaning BaehrTKD mentioned has some validity. But in authoritative terms of what they represent in Korea in general and TKD in particular, it's whatever those entities say they mean.

I cannot agree with that. I would call it a WOKE attitude, where everything should be mean anything.
That is just not reality, nor should we allow this mindset to leak into TKD. My honest opinion.

 

[BaehrTKD]

I cannot agree with that. I would call it a WOKE attitude, where everything should be mean anything.
That is just not reality, nor should we allow this mindset to leak into TKD. My honest opinion.

I know you weren't replying to me but I thought I'd jump in.

The stuff I wrote above, I heard it from a very reliable Korean source. What bugs me is that when I search online, I keep finding the same answer about fire, water, earth, etc... Maybe that's the easiest answer to give to Westerners. I don't know.

He was very specific in his answer. He didn't hesitate. He didn't make anything up on the fly. He was very clear.

The trigrams have a multitude of meanings if you check Wikipedia, so much so that they really could mean anything. (Elements, seasons, father/mother/son/daughter, virtues, etc.) Not very useful I know.

Are there any Koreans here in the forum who have heard what I described above?

 

[HighKick]

I know you weren't replying to me but I thought I'd jump in.

The stuff I wrote above, I heard it from a very reliable Korean source. What bugs me is that when I search online, I keep finding the same answer about fire, water, earth, etc... Maybe that's the easiest answer to give to Westerners. I don't know.

He was very specific in his answer. He didn't hesitate. He didn't make anything up on the fly. He was very clear.

The trigrams have a multitude of meanings if you check Wikipedia, so much so that they really could mean anything. (Elements, seasons, father/mother/son/daughter, virtues, etc.) Not very useful I know.

Are there any Koreans here in the forum who have heard what I described above?

The Trigrams have very specific meaning. There have been great liberties taken by people on this fact. And yes, some of them are Korean. Have no idea why you thought it was important to put Korean in bold, but I thought I would reciprocate.

 

[BaehrTKD]

The Trigrams have very specific meaning.

Okay so in your own words, what do the trigrams mean specifically?

There have been great liberties taken by people on this fact. And yes, some of them are Korean. Have no idea why you thought it was important to put Korean in bold, but I thought I would reciprocate.

I did it for emphasis because I'd rather ask a Korean what their flag means than an American, Italian, Canadian, or anyone else, any day of the week. When it's your flag, you know and care about its meaning. When it's not your flag, you don't.

Case in point: People outside Ukraine didn't even know which way was up on that flag, and it was often shown upside down on the news and by Western supporters of Ukraine. A Ukrainian could never make the same mistake.... because they know the meaning of the colors on their own flag. The blue represents the sky and the yellow represents the wheat fields. They don't teach that in school here.

I'd say if anything has ancient Chinese meanings attached to it, the Koreans probably scrubbed that meaning away as quickly as possible when they got their country back from Chinese invasion, so it's possible that it means what you're saying it means, but I'm saying I think my explanation is the modern meaning of it. I think things have changed.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I did it for emphasis because I'd rather ask a Korean what their flag means than an American, Italian, Canadian, or anyone else, any day of the week. When it's your flag, you know and care about its meaning. When it's not your flag, you don't.

Here's what the South Korean Ministry of the Interior and Safety has to say:

National Administration> National Symbols of the Republic of Korea> The National Flag - Taegeukgi

www.mois.go.kr

Looks like us non-Koreans (other than you) knew the meaning after all.

 

[BaehrTKD]

Here's what the South Korean Ministry of the Interior and Safety has to say:

National Administration> National Symbols of the Republic of Korea> The National Flag - Taegeukgi

www.mois.go.kr

From Wikipedia:

"Together, the trigrams represent movement and harmony as fundamental principles. Each trigram (hangeul: 괘 [gwae]; hanja: 卦) represents one of the four classical elements,[3] as described below:"

Trigram	Korean name	Celestial body	Season	Cardinal direction	Virtue	Family	Natural element	Meaning
	geon (건 / 乾)	heaven (천 / 天)	summer (하 / 夏)	south (남 / 南)	wisdom (인 / 仁)	father (부 / 父)	air (천 / 天)	justice (정의 / 正義)
	gon (곤 / 坤)	earth (지 / 地)	winter (동 / 冬)	north (북 / 北)	righteousness (의 / 義)	mother (모 / 母)	earth (토 / 土)	vitality (생명력 / 生命力)
	ri (리 / 離)	sun (일 / 日)	spring (춘 / 春)	east (동 / 東)	courtesy (례 / 禮)	daughter (녀 / 女)	fire (화 / 火)	fruition (결실 / 結實)
	gam (감 / 坎)	moon (월 / 月)	autumn (추 / 秋)	west (서 / 西)	intelligence (지 / 智)	son (자 / 子)	water (수 / 水)	wisdom (지혜 / 智慧)

Since they can mean directions (NESW), seasons, elements, family members, etc.... maybe there's another column to add to the spreadsheet called "social groupings" or "social fabric" which would read (in order):

"The strong stay together"
"The weak stay together"
"The strong protect the weak"
"The weak protect the strong"

Given everything listed above, I think the explanation I was told is yet another interpretation of those trigrams as they apply to a different category of things.

Looks like us non-Koreans (other than you) knew the meaning after all.

I always knew the Wikipedia meanings behind them. I just know that Wikipedia (and other online sources) aren't always right, so it's good to get multiple sources sometimes.

 

[BaehrTKD]

I guess I should get Wikipedia to include it.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I always knew the Wikipedia meanings behind them. I just know that Wikipedia (and other online sources) aren't always right, so it's good to get multiple sources sometimes.

Honestly, I would trust wikipedia over citizens of a country for something like this. I base that on, in America, the people who don't actually know what the stars and stripes are for and/or how many of each are on the US flag. And then all the people who support the flag but don't understand how to honor/respect it according to the flag code.

It could just be a US thing, but I doubt it.

And the link he provided looks to be to the official government's site about the meaning of the flag, which I'd trust over Wikipedia, and also wouldn't need any additional sources personally.

 

[_Simon_]

Welcome to the forum. I hope to hear from you often.

A very concise and cogent post. It is important to understand duality is used in almost every form/poomsae/hyung and style of martial arts. It may not be as explicitly stated as it is in the Taeguek form set or the narrative(s) from KKW, but by the very nature of physics, it is Always there and used as effective motion by all styles.

It is a great study to dive deeper and learn how Taeguek (particularly the line of) ties to the i-ching.

I am a long, long time TKD study. We are a MDK school first and a WT/KKW school second (even though the WT ties run very deep). It has given me a 'grounding' that makes the philosophical study of the Korean arts much deeper and immersive.

It's a bot HighKick. But a very informative one at that!