So what exactly IS a Taeguek anyway?

[Gnarlie]

See, this is what I mean, and I have done this to, as you have pointed out.
If I write that from what I witnessed Koreans are always friendly and polite, but, Of course this does not actually mean that all Koreans are friendly and polite, it is just what I have observed so far.
This is not romanticized. If I wrote all Koreans are friendly and polite, period. That is.
This just slows down where we can get to know what we know, if we keep having to say, no, I didn't mean that.
So far, Koreans I have met are friendly, polite, and though I didn't say it, I am aware they have emotions, anger, greed and can be dishonest. I know beating their kids in South Korea, is generally accepted, as well as in the schools.
The ones I met feel American Kids are generally disrespectful.

And do me a favor, on whatever whole post I do, I don't really like when someone breaks it down into sections and critiques the individual sections as if they are statements in themselves.

You prefer to write and respond that way, but I don't, I feel it can more easily be taken out of context, which is what has been done.

Like the one I just wrote before this, I probably won't reply if it gets crumbled into little sections, taken apart, reformed to mean something else.

On the topic of Korean behaviour, you initially said not all Koreans are like this, then you went on to make a bunch of rather sweeping generalisations about Korean behaviour.

Perhaps it would have been easier to leave the Koreans out of it and cite the humanitarian ideals of Taekwondo instead.

 

[Cyriacus]

Yo. Im a less polite person than Gnarlie. Feel free to stop reading right here and go about your business if you want.

This just slows down where we can get to know what we know, if we keep having to say, no, I didn't mean that.
So far, Koreans I have met are friendly, polite, and though I didn't say it, I am aware they have emotions, anger, greed and can be dishonest. I know beating their kids in South Korea, is generally accepted, as well as in the schools.
The ones I met feel American Kids are generally disrespectful.

I have a question for you. Give me a firsthand example of a disrespectful American teenager. Not by your definition, not by the definitions of South Korean culture, not by the definitions of American culture. Someone who openly challenges other people who deserve their respect. So basically, find me American teenagers who defy their own standards of decency and ethics to disrespect another person.

Respect and what defines it varies so wildly from place to place that it cannot and should not be looked at like a standard. American kids probably are disrespectful, according to South Koreans. Now go ask an American teenager if his friends are disrespectful. Culture is more than nationality, and respect is more than a generalized sense of supremacy wherein people viewed as inferior 'respect', or belittle themselves for the benefit of those who view themselves as better than them.

And do me a favor, on whatever whole post I do, I don't really like when someone breaks it down into sections and critiques the individual sections as if they are statements in themselves.

So basically, you dont want anyone to read any of what you have to say in isolation? Well, sorry if that doesnt float your boat mate, but if you say something im going to read it, im going to take you on your word, and im going to interpret what you have communicated. Did it never occur to you that they are statements in and of themselves, all of which contribute to whatever point it is youre trying to make? If you are reading this, right now, are all my sentences blurring together into one statement, or are they numerous statements being used to communicate with you? This is how conversation happens. Its a long way from verbal communication, but to be fair, in a verbal chat you wouldnt get so many words out of your mouth before the other participants had their own piece/s to pitch. Verbal conversation is much shorter. Textual conversation allows for, in some ways, more specific conversation.

You prefer to write and respond that way, but I don't, I feel it can more easily be taken out of context, which is what has been done.

Then explain yourself. And tell me, how do you want people to reply to particular points youve made? Do you want us to just ignore the points youve made whether we agree with them or not, and just agree or disagree with no basis of conversation whatsoever? This is a discussion board. We discuss things. Discussion requires points to be made and those points to be addressed.

Like the one I just wrote before this, I probably won't reply if it gets crumbled into little sections, taken apart, reformed to mean something else.

But it hasnt been reformed. Were taking your words and replying to what youve said. I repeat: If this were a verbal conversation, id be replying to every single point or statement you made before you could go on to the next one. Thats how conversation works. Im pretty sure thats universal, too. Only difference is that in text, you get to make several statements, which you have whether you want it to be viewed that way or not, which are then replied to with statements of their own.

Have a great day!

 

[Napitenkah]

You know what, forget it, I'm out.

 

[Gnarlie]

Well that's sad.

It felt like we might be getting somewhere. You can't really discuss without discussion.

I'd still welcome input to this thread from anyone regarding how the underlying philosophy of the Taegeuk forms affect the way you practice them, the way you train, and or the way you live in general.

Does the fact that the forms and TKD in general are based on Taoist, Buddhist, and Confucianist principles interest you? Bother you? Change how you practice or live?

 

[Cyriacus]

You know what, forget it, I'm out.

Toodles, mate.

 

[Cyriacus]

"And do me a favor, on whatever whole post I do, I don't really like when someone breaks it down into sections and critiques the individual sections as if they are statements in themselves."

I don't believe everything I am told, I don't have that kind of allegiance to WTF or ITF to be biased on taking sides.

I don't have an allegiance to Choi Hong Hi.

I was trained in WTF.

Most of the history on Taekwondo is not based on factual evidence, but on supposition.

If you look at Taekkyon and Hwa Rang Do, they are their own styles.


"Do you understand why each form represents something?"

Look at what I wrote in the first post.

"Do you understand the meaning behind Koryo?"

Yes.

I just looked at this thread here;
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/17-Tae-Kwon-Do

And it syncs with what I found of the actual history of Taekwondo.

Hmm.
I guess its only okay when you do it.

EDIT: Going back again, you actually did this quite a bit by quoting small parts of peoples replies, then replying to them separately in separate successive replies. You sir, are a hypocrite.

 

[Napitenkah]

"And do me a favor, on whatever whole post I do, I don't really like when someone breaks it down into sections and critiques the individual sections as if they are statements in themselves."



Hmm.
I guess its only okay when you do it.

EDIT: Going back again, you actually did this quite a bit by quoting small parts of peoples replies, then replying to them separately in separate successive replies. You sir, are a hypocrite.

Thanks for not breaking up that post.

Okay, [h=3]So what exactly IS a Taeguek anyway?[/h]
How about we talk about Taeguek, Taekwondo, and not each other.

 

[Cyriacus]

*Replies to user complaining about communication methods
*Points out that user has broken up posts themself
"Thanks for not breaking up that post."

See now, youve somewhat made up for it by making me laugh my **** off.
Go riiight on ahead

 

[TrueJim]

There's also an explanation of the pal gwae (the eight trigrams) and the taegeuk at

Taekwondo Symbolism - Taekwondo Wiki

 

[The_Awesome_User]

In my dojang we learned 8 taegueks. One for each palgwe.

 

[Dirty Dog]

In my dojang we learned 8 taegueks. One for each palgwe.

Not quite. You learned one for each Gwae. A gwae is one of the trigrams. Palgwae means "8 trigrams" and is another system of forms entirely. The palgwae forms were used by KKW schools in the past, but were replaced by the Taegeuk forms in (if memory serves correctly) 1971.

 

[TrueJim]

As I understand it...

In 1965 the Korea Taekwondo Association appointed a committee of representatives from six of the Nine Kwans to develop the forms for what is now called Kukkiwon-style taekwondo. The committee consisted of:

• Gun Sik Kwak of the Chung Do Kwan
• Young Sup Lee of the Song Moo Kwan
• Kyo Yoon Lee of the Han Moo Kwan
• Man Hae Park of the Chung Do Kwan
• Jong Myun Hyun of the Oh Do Kwan
• Soon Bae Kim of the Chang Moo Kwan

In 1967, this committee introduced the Palgwe and Yudanja (Black Belt) forms (including a simpler version of Koryo). In 1971 two additional kwans joined the committee:

• Chong Woo Lee of Jidokwan
• Young Ki Bae also of Jidokwan
• Young Tae Han of Moo Duk Kwan

This expanded committee went on to develop the Taegeuk forms. As I understand it, the new taekgeuk forms were intended to do two things: (1) incorporate aspects of the styles of the newly-added two kwans, and (2) introduce upright postures earlier a student's instruction, to better prepare the student for sparring.

Taegeuk Poomsae - Taekwondo Wiki

 

[Jaeimseu]

That should read Park Hae Man (Korean style) or Hae Man Park (English style) of the Chungdokwan.

 

[TrueJim]

That should read Park Hae Man (Korean style) or Hae Man Park (English style) of the Chungdokwan.

That would make more sense, I think. I have two (not great) references though saying it was Gun Sik Kwak. There's this blog:
Taekwondo History
(about one-third of the way down the blog).

And this thread:
Philosophy In Taeguek Poomsae MartialTalk.Com - Friendly Martial Arts Forum Community

You wouldn't by any chance have a definitive reference would you? I ask only so that I can add it to the wiki.

 

[Gnarlie]

http://web.stanford.edu/group/Taekwondo/documents/tkd_history.pdf try this TrueJim, it was recommended to my by the late Grandmaster Al Cole.

 

[Jaeimseu]

No. I've met the man several times and I've always heard he was on the committee.

 

[TrueJim]

No. I've met the man several times and I've always heard he was on the committee.

It could be that both things were true. Like...look at how often one name is on a committee, but he sends another name to represent him at most of the meetings.

I did just find this source: Grandmaster Park Hae man Taeguk creator Taekwondo
And this source: TKD History

I've updated the Taegeuk Poomsae page on the wiki to note the info, and also created a Hae Man Park biography page (feel free to add more to either page if you know any more detail - it's a wiki after all!).

Hae Man Park - Taekwondo Wiki

 

[msmitht]

Here. Taeguek is in the middle

 

[dvcochran]

In class tonight, we got into a discussion regarding the Taeguek forms. It's not something we normally do, because all the students being different levels, aren't at the point where they follow such things. Tonight was all 2nd dans and a high colored belt. Specialty class! I love 'em.

So as we're going through the forms, I realized I had no idea what a Taeguek was (besides the name of a form), so I asked. Here's the short version of what I learned. Anyone that can chip in or redirect, please feel free to do so.

A Taeguek is a symbol on the Korean flag. We all know the four symbols (or if not, just ask), but what I didn't know was that there are 16 Taegueks in all. Three in between each one on the Korean flag. So then I ask "If those are Taegueks, what's a Palgwe?"

There are 8 Palgwe symbols. (Not talking forms here). Each Taeguek is made up of varying combinations of the 8 Palgwe's.

So where we left off and I don't have answers for yet.
1. What is the name of each of the eight Palgwe symbols?
2. What are the names of the other 12 Taegueks not portrayed on the Korean flag?
3. Which Palgwe's make up each Taeguek?

If anyone knows, please clarify.

Thanks,

From Wiki:
The flag's background is white, a traditional color in Korean culture. White was common in the daily attire of 19th-century Koreans, and it still appears in contemporary versions of traditional Korean garments, such as the hanbok. The color represents peace and purity.

The circle in the middle is derived from the philosophy of um-yang (yin-yang in Chinese) and represents balance in the universe. The red half represents positive cosmic forces, and the blue half represents the opposing negative cosmic forces.

Together, the trigrams represent movement and harmony as fundamental principles. Each trigram (hangeul: 괘 [gwae]; hanja: 卦) represents one of the four classical elements,[2] as described below:

Trigram Korean name Celestial body Season Cardinal direction Virtue Family Natural element Meaning
☰ geon
(건 / 乾) heaven
(천 / 天) spring
(춘 / 春) east
(동 / 東) humanity
(인 / 仁) father
(부 / 父) heaven
(천 / 天) justice
(정의 / 正義)
☲ ri
(리 / 離) sun
(일 / 日) autumn
(추 / 秋) south
(남 / 南) justice
(의 / 義) daughter
(녀 / 女) fire
(화 / 火) fruition
(결실 / 結實)
☵ gam
(감 / 坎) moon
(월 / 月) winter
(동 / 冬) north
(북 / 北) intelligence
(지 / 智) son
(자 / 子) water
(수 / 水) wisdom
(지혜 / 智慧)
☷ gon
(곤 / 坤) earth
(지 / 地) summer
(하 / 夏) west
(서 / 西) courtesy
(례 / 禮) mother
(모 / 母) earth
(토 / 土) vitality
(생명력 / 生命力)

From the I Ching:
The I Ching Trigrams

Eight Basic Principles

I Ching consists of 64 hexagrams, but it's really the eight trigrams they are combinations of that are the basic components of the I Ching. The trigrams explain the nature of each hexagram. Here they are, and the principles they represent.








There are 64 hexagrams in the I Ching, which are used in divination, consisting of six lines that are either full or broken. Each hexagram has its specific meaning and divination text. But they in turn are made up of pairs of trigrams, with three lines each. And those trigrams are the real keys to the I Ching and its logics.

Each of the eight trigrams represents a baisc force of nature. They are:

1. Heaven, the Creative
2. Lake, the Joyous
3. Fire, the Clinging
4. Thunder, the Arousing
5. Wind, the Gentle
6. Water, the Abysmal
7. Mountain, Keeping Still
8. Earth, the Receptive

Since the trigrams consist of three lines that can either be broken or whole, the number of possible combination of lines is eight (2 x 2 x 2). And each of the hexagrams is a unique combination of two trigrams. That makes for a total of 64 (8 x 8). That's the whole of the I Ching.

 

[dvcochran]

Something of interest I have seen referenced in books but seldom hear mentioned is the Line of Taeguek, a thin line between the red and blue on most Korean flags. It is the infinite divide between good and evil etc.... My GM, Seoung Eui Shin speaks of it often when talking about the adversities of life.
mastershinonline.com