So I'm kind of confused what to do here.

Ironbear24 said:
It's like martial arts, is there a point where you stop trying to become better at it?
Click to expand...
In martial arts I only train one thing: martial arts. In your case you are training 2 things that are kind of on the "opposite end of a stick." If I drew a line on paper, martial arts weight lifting would be on one end of the line and the heavy bench pressing with the goal to lift heavy bench press would be on the other end. The more you head towards trying to lift heavy just for the sake of lifting heavy, the further you move away from the martial arts weight lifting. The more you move towards martial arts weight lifting the further you'll move away from lifting heavy.

This type of training makes you really strong in multiple areas. It's not isolating muscles like a curl or bench press does. It's engaging numerous muscles, meaning the person is getting stronger in more than one area. It also strengthens ligaments and tendons in multiple areas too. With martial art weight lifting the goal isn't to see how much one can lift.


The other downside of trying to lift as heavy as you can is that it trains slow twitch muscles. In martial arts you want to train fast twitch muscles more than your slow twitch muscles. I'll put it in terms of running. I can either train to be a sprinter or a long distance runner, but I can't train to be both. I will either train fast twitch muscles or I'll train slow twitch muscles, but it will get to a point were I won't be able to train both. The heavier the weight is the more it will engage my slow twitch muscles.

You can keep doing what you are doing. I'm not saying that it's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm just stating the trade off that you'll experience.
 
JowGaWolf said:
In martial arts I only train one thing: martial arts. In your case you are training 2 things that are kind of on the "opposite end of a stick." If I drew a line on paper, martial arts weight lifting would be on one end of the line and the heavy bench pressing with the goal to lift heavy bench press would be on the other end. The more you head towards trying to lift heavy just for the sake of lifting heavy, the further you move away from the martial arts weight lifting. The more you move towards martial arts weight lifting the further you'll move away from lifting heavy.

This type of training makes you really strong in multiple areas. It's not isolating muscles like a curl or bench press does. It's engaging numerous muscles, meaning the person is getting stronger in more than one area. It also strengthens ligaments and tendons in multiple areas too. With martial art weight lifting the goal isn't to see how much one can lift.


The other downside of trying to lift as heavy as you can is that it trains slow twitch muscles. In martial arts you want to train fast twitch muscles more than your slow twitch muscles. I'll put it in terms of running. I can either train to be a sprinter or a long distance runner, but I can't train to be both. I will either train fast twitch muscles or I'll train slow twitch muscles, but it will get to a point were I won't be able to train both. The heavier the weight is the more it will engage my slow twitch muscles.

You can keep doing what you are doing. I'm not saying that it's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm just stating the trade off that you'll experience.
Click to expand...

Would resistance band training help the fast twitch muscles?
 
Ironbear24 said:
Would resistance band training help the fast twitch muscles?
Click to expand...

This illustrates the basic therories I do it to minimize injury, since I have enough risk of that in MA training and at work.
Increase Your Fast-Twitch Potential With Isometrics

In short, to maximize fast twitch fibers its not even required that you actually move anything, you just have to explosively TRY. So even a wall can be a exercise machine.
 
JowGaWolf said:
In martial arts I only train one thing: martial arts. In your case you are training 2 things that are kind of on the "opposite end of a stick." If I drew a line on paper, martial arts weight lifting would be on one end of the line and the heavy bench pressing with the goal to lift heavy bench press would be on the other end. The more you head towards trying to lift heavy just for the sake of lifting heavy, the further you move away from the martial arts weight lifting. The more you move towards martial arts weight lifting the further you'll move away from lifting heavy.

This type of training makes you really strong in multiple areas. It's not isolating muscles like a curl or bench press does. It's engaging numerous muscles, meaning the person is getting stronger in more than one area. It also strengthens ligaments and tendons in multiple areas too. With martial art weight lifting the goal isn't to see how much one can lift.


The other downside of trying to lift as heavy as you can is that it trains slow twitch muscles. In martial arts you want to train fast twitch muscles more than your slow twitch muscles. I'll put it in terms of running. I can either train to be a sprinter or a long distance runner, but I can't train to be both. I will either train fast twitch muscles or I'll train slow twitch muscles, but it will get to a point were I won't be able to train both. The heavier the weight is the more it will engage my slow twitch muscles.

You can keep doing what you are doing. I'm not saying that it's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm just stating the trade off that you'll experience.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree here in that lifting weights is not counter to explosive training. It depends on how he lifts. Most Olympic lifts are done in explosive movements and train fast twitch muscles. Not only that, they're not isolating and work multiple muscle groups. You can train for strength or you can body build. The former is great for MA.
 
kuniggety said:
I have to disagree here in that lifting weights is not counter to explosive training. It depends on how he lifts. Most Olympic lifts are done in explosive movements and train fast twitch muscles. Not only that, they're not isolating and work multiple muscle groups. You can train for strength or you can body build. The former is great for MA.
Click to expand...

The main important part though is the explosiveness. You can actually train fast twitch fibers via isometrics vs plyometrics.
 
Ironbear24 said:
Would resistance band training help the fast twitch muscles?
Click to expand...
Depends on how you use them. The more tension you have the more they will engage the slow twitch muscle the less tension you have the more you'll be able to work the fast twitch muscles. Keep in mind that fast twitch muscles involve muscles used to punch outward and muscles used to pull the punch back in.
 
kuniggety said:
I have to disagree here in that lifting weights is not counter to explosive training. It depends on how he lifts. Most Olympic lifts are done in explosive movements and train fast twitch muscles. Not only that, they're not isolating and work multiple muscle groups. You can train for strength or you can body build. The former is great for MA.
Click to expand...
Here's as an example. Notice the heavier the weight the slower the press and the less explosive movements you see. This is perfect example of fast twitch moving into slow twitch. Ironbear maxed out at 300 meaning that he is definitely working slower arm movement.

Guy that trains fast twitch muscles vs guy that trains slow twitch muscles

Here's a guy that does both martial arts and body building.. Note the speed at which he does his kicks vs the speed at which you see non-body building TKD practitioners do.

I think of muscles as the engine of my body. I can either be power as a tank or as powerful as a high performance race car. I can't be both. My muscle development must reflect the activity that I'm doing. This is why athletes in different sports have different muscle build that reflect the type of sport they are doing. Martial arts is no different.
 
JowGaWolf said:
Here's as an example. Notice the heavier the weight the slower the press and the less explosive movements you see. This is perfect example of fast twitch moving into slow twitch. Ironbear maxed out at 300 meaning that he is definitely working slower arm movement.

Guy that trains fast twitch muscles vs guy that trains slow twitch muscles

Here's a guy that does both martial arts and body building.. Note the speed at which he does his kicks vs the speed at which you see non-body building TKD practitioners do.

I think of muscles as the engine of my body. I can either be power as a tank or as powerful as a high performance race car. I can't be both. My muscle development must reflect the activity that I'm doing. This is why athletes in different sports have different muscle build that reflect the type of sport they are doing. Martial arts is no different.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is more one of decision. All those Olympic weight guys do is weights. So they will train slow twitch with max lifts. We will call that X. Then they will train fast twitch with explosive lifts say X-Y, and then build on both.

The question our OP has to ask is "what do I want" because, unless he only has to worry about making time for lifting and for MA, he will have to change his overall training set up as it stands now and compromise if he wants to start building fast twitch.

It's like me when I run. Yes I will go out and run for sometime for 5k plus miles endurance BUT I also throw in sprints at regular intervals to stress my cardio and not neglect fast twitch muscles.
 
Juany118 said:
I think the issue is more one of decision. All those Olympic weight guys do is weights. So they will train slow twitch with max lifts. We will call that X. Then they will train fast twitch with explosive lifts say X-Y, and then build on both.

The question our OP has to ask is "what do I want" because, unless he only has to worry about making time for lifting and for MA, he will have to change his overall training set up as it stands now and compromise if he wants to start building fast twitch.

It's like me when I run. Yes I will go out and run for sometime for 5k plus miles endurance BUT I also throw in sprints at regular intervals to stress my cardio and not neglect fast twitch muscles.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that he can't train both. I'm just saying that there's a point where there will be a trade off.
 
JowGaWolf said:
I'm not saying that he can't train both. I'm just saying that there's a point where there will be a trade off.
Click to expand...

Oh okay I see that and with that in mind the trade off is related to the amount of time you have to devote to that particular type of training.

That is why I think you don't see a lot of "huge" martial artists tbh. The amount of time it takes for your "day job" + martial arts + gym work + family/social time means something has to give.
 
Juany118 said:
That is why I think you don't see a lot of "huge" martial artists tbh.
Click to expand...

Well I would like to be one of them. I feel like they go hand in hand with eachother since your body is what you are using for martial arts, may as well improve your body as well.
 
Ironbear24 said:
Well I would like to be one of them. I feel like they go hand in hand with eachother since your body is what you are using for martial arts, may as well improve your body as well.
Click to expand...

The thing is though there is a limit and it depends on your MA. I can see a wrestler, a boxer etc wanting to get huge. However there are some arts where flexibility and speed are HUGE (no pun intended) factors. Others are balanced. I don't know much about the Art you practice but getting big and getting fast twitch muscle use two different theories of training. There is also the fact of where the fast twitch muscles are generated.

Let's say you do A LOT of bench pressing and do so with fast twitch. Cool, but where does the majority of your punching strength come from? Is it snapping from the waist? If so having all that fast twitch work in your bench press isn't going to be a big help. Even if it is a straight punch, a lot of arts use the legs and back as much, if not more than the chest to produce the power.

It's why earlier I said talk to your Sensei and ask him probing questions about why he said huge size isn't preferable in the art you study. While we calls these "Martial Arts" when it comes right down to it, strip away the philosophy and they are "Martial Sciences" because they all use different methods of biomechanics to maximize the transfer of energy.
 
Juany118 said:
The thing is though there is a limit and it depends on your MA. I can see a wrestler, a boxer etc wanting to get huge. However there are some arts where flexibility and speed are HUGE (no pun intended) factors. Others are balanced. I don't know much about the Art you practice but getting big and getting fast twitch muscle use two different theories of training. There is also the fact of where the fast twitch muscles are generated.

Let's say you do A LOT of bench pressing and do so with fast twitch. Cool, but where does the majority of your punching strength come from? Is it snapping from the waist? If so having all that fast twitch work in your bench press isn't going to be a big help. Even if it is a straight punch, a lot of arts use the legs and back as much, if not more than the chest to produce the power.

It's why earlier I said talk to your Sensei and ask him probing questions about why he said huge size isn't preferable in the art you study. While we calls these "Martial Arts" when it comes right down to it, strip away the philosophy and they are "Martial Sciences" because they all use different methods of biomechanics to maximize the transfer of energy.
Click to expand...

There is also the fact women like them.
 
Ironbear24 said:
There is also the fact women like them.
Click to expand...

Indeed they do but first, as someone else said you have girlfriend. She was with you before you could bench 300 lbs. Next, in my experience, while of course most people have certain ideas regarding attractiveness and or a "type" there are complications with the muscle bit. First if it's gym bunnies beware my friend. I work with some guys who push heavy plates every morning. They have gone out with those chicks and it has never worked out well.

Second you need to be careful on your own. You seem to have a lot on your plate. I assume your work, or go to school, you then obviously spend a lot of time in the gym (pressing 300 is no small feet) and you study martial arts, not a small time commitment. No relationship can be healthy, without paying attention to the person (paramour) or persons (family and friends) involved. Also I have watched people who ended up defining themselves by those muscles. That is bad for two reasons. First they become and obsession and everything else becomes secondary. Trust me your "better half" and family don't want to feel like they are second to a bar bell. Then you end up "stuck" with the gym bunnies.

The above may not apply to you, just a caution since I have seen it happen. Me I am pretty slim, but also athletic and fit. I never had issues getting girls. In my experience what they are really attracted to isn't big muscles (and this is actually something evolutionary psychology supports), it's males that are "simply" fit and appear confident. Confidence comes from different sources for each person. If you want relationships to last though you need to make sure that "source" doesn't become an obsession.
 
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