SKK Problem Techniques

[JTKenpo]

We recently changed the way we end SDM #3.

Previously we ended with, after dropping him using the shoulder twist, a left straight punch to the solar plexus or face.

We have changed that to be a left kick to the face, if needed. This must be done with discretion because this could in some circumstances put us over the line form 'defending myself" to 'attacking a helpless person' from a legal perspective.

Which highlights another area we are changing. We are emphasizing the tactics of the situation. Does the throw sufficiently incapacitate the attacker? Then no kick. is he trying to get back up to continue his attack - kick him. It's part of a bigger "strategic" enhancement we are trying to incorporate, which I will try to write more about later but I still have lots of thinking to do on it and it's still undergoing development too.

Do you allow someone options at the end? ie you could kick this way OR drop your height zone and punch that way? It was originally taught this way but I have seen other ke?po people do it this other way....

Obviously I don't mean all for the beginner but somewhere along the line, or is it this is the ONLY way to do it in this school?

 

[marlon]

yup, i was think what JT said. the kick variation means that they are already on the ground when you strike. Although we teach it take them tyo the ground then strike the application ai have has always been hit them on their way down..into the ground

respectfully,
marlon

 

[JTKenpo]

Do you allow someone options at the end? ie you could kick this way OR drop your height zone and punch that way? It was originally taught this way but I have seen other ke?po people do it this other way....

Obviously I don't mean all for the beginner but somewhere along the line, or is it this is the ONLY way to do it in this school?

David, I would be very careful of trying to conform too much to the legal implications of self defense. I understand that it is a huge concern for all martial artists but at the end of the day in that dark alley where your or someone you love has their life on the line you shouldn't be thinking this guy might sue me if I take his eyeball out of his head.

 

[14 Kempo]

David, I would be very careful of trying to conform too much to the legal implications of self defense. I understand that it is a huge concern for all martial artists but at the end of the day in that dark alley where your or someone you love has their life on the line you shouldn't be thinking this guy might sue me if I take his eyeball out of his head.

I agree, what's that corny old saying, "Better to be judged by twelve, then carried by six" ... yeah, that's it.

 

[JTKenpo]

I agree, what's that corny old saying, "Better to be judged by twelve, then carried by six" ... yeah, that's it.

Yup thats the one. It may be corny but it comes out of my mouth atleast once a week.

 

[DavidCC]

We're not going to teach the punch any more.

We always address the legal implications, which are even more important in weapons defenses. if you take a gun away from someone and shoot them, you better be aware of how the County prosecutor is going to see that. Unarmed defenses have some concerns but are much less likely to result in prosecution. So for this kick, we want our students to be aware that kicking a helpless person makes THEM the attacker and if a police officer rounds the corner behind you just as you kick, you are the "bad guy". We aren't so much concerned with a mugger suing us as we are the testimony of witnesses LOL

But I am not disagreeing with you guys, good points all around, just pointing out that this is part of a bigger picture... of course the priority is to get home safe.

Most of our adults have this memorized more or less: "I'm not sure what happened, he attacked me, it's all kindof blurry after that; I just Thank God he didn't kill me, I was afraid for my life."

www.steinerama.com

 

[JTKenpo]

We're not going to teach the punch any more.

We always address the legal implications, which are even more important in weapons defenses. if you take a gun away from someone and shoot them, you better be aware of how the County prosecutor is going to see that. Unarmed defenses have some concerns but are much less likely to result in prosecution. So for this kick, we want our students to be aware that kicking a helpless person makes THEM the attacker and if a police officer rounds the corner behind you just as you kick, you are the "bad guy". We aren't so much concerned with a mugger suing us as we are the testimony of witnesses LOL

But I am not disagreeing with you guys, good points all around, just pointing out that this is part of a bigger picture... of course the priority is to get home safe.

Most of our adults have this memorized more or less: "I'm not sure what happened, he attacked me, it's all kindof blurry after that; I just Thank God he didn't kill me, I was afraid for my life."

www.steinerama.com

When specifically talking about gun defense I always stress to students that you do not want to use an attackers gun against them, well thats not true either I should say you don't want to try and shoot their gun. Unless you have a plethera of knowledge on hand guns you may not know the intricacies of said gun and worse it might just blow up in your face. You don't know where this idiot got it, could be from grandpas collection that still has a chambered bullet but is rusted to hell. Of course any handgun works great if you hit em with it.

I do understand your point about the legalities, just offering some food for thought since you guys are in that stage, know what I mean.

 

[14 Kempo]

I have to agree with you somewhat David. I do talk to my students about legal implications and they need to be aware, but it always comes back to "do what you gotta do, deal with the consequences" ... if you think about it, dealing with the consequences can be much more beneficial than being in a wheelchair for life, or even worse, a coffin ... at least you survived.

 

[graychuan]

In dealing with armed attackers, specifically guns i can only offer one realistic suggestion...


Any modern day martial artist that wants to seriously address self-defense, should just go ahead and get a concealed/carry deadly weapon license. This will lend insight to a couple of pertinant issues...

1. I know for a fact that in the state of Kentucky the law is only on your side with firearms and lethal force if it is justified. Wrenching the gun from an assailant then shooting them with it may seem appropriate but as soon as you do this they will be unarmed and you will have the gun. The law will not be on your side. However if you have your own gun then you will be ok...as long as you shoot first.:shooter:
2. In Kentucky, the concealed carry law covers any legally obtainable weapon, including bladed weapons. So you only need a gun to pass the firearm part of the test to get the certification... but you still have a choice if you dont want to carry a gun. %-} So if your state recognizes your right to carry then my opinion is that you are only exercising your rights as a tax-paying citizen to get the license whether you own a gun or not.

#3. In Kentucky small self-defense weapons such as spiked batons or spiked keychains are also considered concealed deadly weapons. I believe any blade over 3" long is considered deadly weapon. So any female martial artists or just anyone who isnt licensed but carries one of these for self defense then you are probably on the wrong side of the law. So In keeping with point #2...rent or borrow a gun. Pass the test. Then get rid of the gun and carry what you are comfortable with.


This is a big thread and I didnt read all of it so if these options have already been adressed then sorry to rehash it.

Love, Peace & Chitlin Grease

~Cg~

 

[Jdokan]

We recently changed the way we end SDM #3.

Previously we ended with, after dropping him using the shoulder twist, a left straight punch to the solar plexus or face.

We have changed that to be a left kick to the face, if needed. This must be done with discretion because this could in some circumstances put us over the line form 'defending myself" to 'attacking a helpless person' from a legal perspective.

Which highlights another area we are changing. We are emphasizing the tactics of the situation. Does the throw sufficiently incapacitate the attacker? Then no kick. is he trying to get back up to continue his attack - kick him. It's part of a bigger "strategic" enhancement we are trying to incorporate, which I will try to write more about later but I still have lots of thinking to do on it and it's still undergoing development too.

We've also changed #3...the opening up through the backpunch has remained (for the most part), the right hand still drops a "heavy" cranes' wing to the neck grabbing their L/shoulder...I was taught pull into a L/driving elbow to the spine...

 

[JTKenpo]

We've also changed #3...the opening up through the backpunch has remained (for the most part), the right hand still drops a "heavy" cranes' wing to the neck grabbing their L/shoulder...I was taught pull into a L/driving elbow to the spine...

Do I understand correctly that you are not turning them over but pulling them forward (like #18) in order to deliver the elbow to the spine?

 

[Jdokan]

Correct...your right arm is laying parallel to their shoulders. The elbow acting as a pivot point as you pull with the hand....What I do is to hook my fingers (monkey) into the carotid area...this helps to ensure they pivot nicely..they rotate CCW..once they turn their back enough that's when I deliver the elbow to the spine...

 

[marlon]

Correct...your right arm is laying parallel to their shoulders. The elbow acting as a pivot point as you pull with the hand....What I do is to hook my fingers (monkey) into the carotid area...this helps to ensure they pivot nicely..they rotate CCW..once they turn their back enough that's when I deliver the elbow to the spine...

VEry cool technique but why call it combination #3. This is one of the ones there is no 12 cirles of madness confusion about. why not drop it as 3 and call it something else. otherwise i think it will just add to skk confusion.

Respectfully,
marlon

 

[14 Kempo]

VEry cool technique but why call it combination #3. This is one of the ones there is no 12 cirles of madness confusion about. why not drop it as 3 and call it something else. otherwise i think it will just add to skk confusion.

Respectfully,
marlon

I would agree here. Basically it is a variation of combination #3, which is actually a kempo technique, or least that's how we look at things like this.

 

[JTKenpo]

I would agree here. Basically it is a variation of combination #3, which is actually a kempo technique, or least that's how we look at things like this.

There is also the option of A, B, C type of deal. Combo 3A and 3B as an option. Just another option.

 

[14 Kempo]

There is also the option of A, B, C type of deal. Combo 3A and 3B as an option. Just another option.

Yes, we use that as well. Usually when we use the terms A or B, they are slight variations of the original.

Our method of teaching allows for students to mold the combinations and kempo techniques into something that will better fit their body type, size, etc. What we demand is that our instructors teach the combinations as closely to the original as possible. That will allow each students to grow it, over time, into their own, without loosing the concepts of the original.

As an example, if I personally make changes to a technique to better suit the way I move, it is great for me, but I'm 5' 10" and about 245 lbs, mainly muscle. If I'm teaching the technique to a female that is 5' 2" and less than 100 lbs, the technique may not be the same as if I'm doing it. They need to be taught the original method and allowed, over time, to grow it into something that works for them, at their size and utilizing their strengths.

As with the variation that brought this discussion forward, I would see the driving elbow to the spine as a possiblilty for me, but for a 100# woman against a 200# pound man, well, I'd question its effectiveness. Not that it couldn't be effective, just that I'd question it. JMHO

 

[Jdokan]

VEry cool technique but why call it combination #3. This is one of the ones there is no 12 cirles of madness confusion about. why not drop it as 3 and call it something else. otherwise i think it will just add to skk confusion.

Respectfully,
marlon

You bring up an excellent point! Over time (as part of the {original} USSD meltdown) a considerable number of our combinations changed...to the point the name changed: combinations= ping te's...The style of what we were slowly started to morph into what is currently being taught...Since I have left I also have modified movements to what fits me. I retain the numbering sequence for my own usage and nothing else...

For me to re-invent a numbering sequence to reflect what I have done is beyond any value to me. I don't try to compare my material with any other SSK people other than discussion purposes....

Even some of the material I've had for years was done differently when compared to some of the other schools....did it mean that my numbers should have be called something else? To me my #4 was #4 even if the boys from some other school/state, etc did something else.....

Right now my #6 is nothing of the SSK ways, (you wouldn't recognize 8,9, 10 & a few others...nothing like the old days) but it is still my #6....
make sense to anybody else or is it just me??....[or is my wife once again right...that though is another thread....(typically she's always right!! LOL...)]
PEACE,
j,

 

[JTKenpo]

You bring up an excellent point! Over time (as part of the {original} USSD meltdown) a considerable number of our combinations changed...to the point the name changed: combinations= ping te's...The style of what we were slowly started to morph into what is currently being taught...Since I have left I also have modified movements to what fits me. I retain the numbering sequence for my own usage and nothing else...

For me to re-invent a numbering sequence to reflect what I have done is beyond any value to me. I don't try to compare my material with any other SSK people other than discussion purposes....

Even some of the material I've had for years was done differently when compared to some of the other schools....did it mean that my numbers should have be called something else? To me my #4 was #4 even if the boys from some other school/state, etc did something else.....

Right now my #6 is nothing of the SSK ways, (you wouldn't recognize 8,9, 10 & a few others...nothing like the old days) but it is still my #6....
make sense to anybody else or is it just me??....[or is my wife once again right...that though is another thread....(typically she's always right!! LOL...)]
PEACE,
j,

Makes sense to me (although that may not be much comfort ). I have changed some of the #techs as well, my reasoning being that they were extensions of kempo techs taught at earlier ranks OR they were category completion techs of kempo techs taught at earlier ranks. This allowed me to bring in techs from other styles and use them as # techs. Could I have used these other techs from other systems as named kempo techs, sure and in some cases I did.

I think I'm rambling, anyway on techs I have altered, replaced or scrapped I always give the example of the original tech and why I changed from it.

 

[RevIV]

You bring up an excellent point! Over time (as part of the {original} USSD meltdown) a considerable number of our combinations changed...to the point the name changed: combinations= ping te's...The style of what we were slowly started to morph into what is currently being taught...Since I have left I also have modified movements to what fits me. I retain the numbering sequence for my own usage and nothing else...

For me to re-invent a numbering sequence to reflect what I have done is beyond any value to me. I don't try to compare my material with any other SSK people other than discussion purposes....

Even some of the material I've had for years was done differently when compared to some of the other schools....did it mean that my numbers should have be called something else? To me my #4 was #4 even if the boys from some other school/state, etc did something else.....

Right now my #6 is nothing of the SSK ways, (you wouldn't recognize 8,9, 10 & a few others...nothing like the old days) but it is still my #6....
make sense to anybody else or is it just me??....[or is my wife once again right...that though is another thread....(typically she's always right!! LOL...)]
PEACE,
j,

No your wrong...
haha - just kidding. Heading off the "Blunt Force Trauma" tonight in Manchester NH. One of my good friends owns a Kempo school and has 5 fighters going into the cage tonight and he asked me to be his corner man. www.cagefightmma.net

 

[Jdokan]

No your wrong...
haha - just kidding. Heading off the "Blunt Force Trauma" tonight in Manchester NH. One of my good friends owns a Kempo school and has 5 fighters going into the cage tonight and he asked me to be his corner man. www.cagefightmma.net

nice.....jealous....