SKK Problem Techniques

[MJS]

Its been a while since I've really gone over the SKK combos that I know. I have other material that I'm currently working on (non SKK related) but from time to time, I will go back and run thru some of the old techniques.

Thinking back, there were some that used to drive me crazy, when I'd work them on a partner. Perhaps it was because I didn't have a good understanding of them or maybe I was just doing something wrong, and had I tweaked the tech. just a bit, maybe it would've worked better.

So...I thought I'd start this thread so we could discuss some of the problem techniques that some of us have run into. There are alot of techs. so I'm sure that there must be at least one that used to be a PITA!

For me, I'd have to say that one of them was #19. Everything, IMHO, was fine right up until the part where you flip them over. On a smaller person, sure, I could see this working, but on a large person...I'm just not seeing it. Personally, after the elbow to the back, I'd rather drop a few more elbows or perhaps some knees to the head.

Well, thats a start! Anyone have any that drove them crazy?

 

[14 Kempo]

Its been a while since I've really gone over the SKK combos that I know. I have other material that I'm currently working on (non SKK related) but from time to time, I will go back and run thru some of the old techniques.

Thinking back, there were some that used to drive me crazy, when I'd work them on a partner. Perhaps it was because I didn't have a good understanding of them or maybe I was just doing something wrong, and had I tweaked the tech. just a bit, maybe it would've worked better.

So...I thought I'd start this thread so we could discuss some of the problem techniques that some of us have run into. There are alot of techs. so I'm sure that there must be at least one that used to be a PITA!

For me, I'd have to say that one of them was #19. Everything, IMHO, was fine right up until the part where you flip them over. On a smaller person, sure, I could see this working, but on a large person...I'm just not seeing it. Personally, after the elbow to the back, I'd rather drop a few more elbows or perhaps some knees to the head.

Well, thats a start! Anyone have any that drove them crazy?

I know what you mean, Mike. We have modified this with the approval of various GMs of various styles. Rather than the 'flip' we finish same as combo #3.

...
Step in with left foot, drop right elbow to the spine.
Reach over, grab opponents left shoulder.
Push down with your left, to back of opponents right shoulder, pull opponents left shoulder with your right hand.
Rotate clockwise, 180 degrees, pivoting on your left foot.
Finish with punch to face, driving them to the ground.

 

[MJS]

I know what you mean, Mike. We have modified this with the approval of various GMs of various styles. Rather than the 'flip' we finish same as combo #3.

...
Step in with left foot, drop right elbow to the spine.
Reach over, grab opponents left shoulder.
Push down with your left, to back of opponents right shoulder, pull opponents left shoulder with your right hand.
Rotate clockwise, 180 degrees, pivoting on your left foot.
Finish with punch to face, driving them to the ground.

Hmmm...thats interesting! I like that! I'll have to give it a shot! I'm sure once the elbow is dropped, thats going to take alot of steam out of the person, but the other way....just didn't go smooth for me.

 

[14 Kempo]

Hmmm...thats interesting! I like that! I'll have to give it a shot! I'm sure once the elbow is dropped, thats going to take alot of steam out of the person, but the other way....just didn't go smooth for me.

I think you'll like it! I know I do.

 

[marlon]

Its been a while since I've really gone over the SKK combos that I know. I have other material that I'm currently working on (non SKK related) but from time to time, I will go back and run thru some of the old techniques.

Thinking back, there were some that used to drive me crazy, when I'd work them on a partner. Perhaps it was because I didn't have a good understanding of them or maybe I was just doing something wrong, and had I tweaked the tech. just a bit, maybe it would've worked better.

So...I thought I'd start this thread so we could discuss some of the problem techniques that some of us have run into. There are alot of techs. so I'm sure that there must be at least one that used to be a PITA!

For me, I'd have to say that one of them was #19. Everything, IMHO, was fine right up until the part where you flip them over. On a smaller person, sure, I could see this working, but on a large person...I'm just not seeing it. Personally, after the elbow to the back, I'd rather drop a few more elbows or perhaps some knees to the head.

Well, thats a start! Anyone have any that drove them crazy?

for 19 i did not really learn to flip them over but rather role them. after the elbow to the spine the i slide my hand to thier neck with a good amount of pressure in the direction of thier groin. while with the other hand i strike the groin and continue a circular motion cw (both arm moving this way) and step cw with the back leg (cw) getting out of the way. the takedown pretty much takes care of itself. the pressure to the neck and to groin strike combines to bend the attacker in such a way that very little strength is needed. Anytime a student tres to throw theperson or flip them it does not work b/c what your brain tells your body to do biomechanically usually does not work. I tell the students to trust the movement and let the takedown take care of itself. It seems to work for them.

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[MeatWad2]

I have a problem with any of the combo's that you spin in front of the person

 

[JTKenpo]

Its been a while since I've really gone over the SKK combos that I know. I have other material that I'm currently working on (non SKK related) but from time to time, I will go back and run thru some of the old techniques.

Thinking back, there were some that used to drive me crazy, when I'd work them on a partner. Perhaps it was because I didn't have a good understanding of them or maybe I was just doing something wrong, and had I tweaked the tech. just a bit, maybe it would've worked better.

So...I thought I'd start this thread so we could discuss some of the problem techniques that some of us have run into. There are alot of techs. so I'm sure that there must be at least one that used to be a PITA!

For me, I'd have to say that one of them was #19. Everything, IMHO, was fine right up until the part where you flip them over. On a smaller person, sure, I could see this working, but on a large person...I'm just not seeing it. Personally, after the elbow to the back, I'd rather drop a few more elbows or perhaps some knees to the head.

Well, thats a start! Anyone have any that drove them crazy?

For the end of 19 after the right dropping elbow I grab the back of the neck at the base of the skull and allow my left hand to slide under the right shoulder. Then pushing down and to my left with my right hand and up with my left it turns the attacker over and drops them on their back. To preserve the original technique I do not alter it in 6 kata.

Side note - glad to be back, my computer crashed and I just got it back.

 

[14 Kempo]

For the end of 19 after the right dropping elbow I grab the back of the neck at the base of the skull and allow my left hand to slide under the right shoulder. Then pushing down and to my left with my right hand and up with my left it turns the attacker over and drops them on their back. To preserve the original technique I do not alter it in 6 kata.

Side note - glad to be back, my computer crashed and I just got it back.

Welcome back, JT, nice to have your input again.

 

[Jdokan]

I think the difficulty I've had is ...will the opponent really be there after certain strikes...in this case the elbow...I think in reality IF you planted a solid kick to the groin or lower triangle, then struck their neck with the cupping sword hand (continuing their bending motion) followed by a driving elbow directly onto the spinal column....at this poinnt they should have collapsted to the ground totally...in a heap of flesh...BUT we're practicing here......to the point....after I strike with the elbow I encircle the head with that right arm, getting good control over the head & neck. I now crank their neck (clockwise) as if I was going to do a #1 block....My left hand helps redirect their lower body by pushing up on their right shoulder.....They very easily and very cooperatively roll or risk snapping their neck. They land at a 3:00 position where I finish the technique....

 

[14 Kempo]

I think the difficulty I've had is ...will the opponent really be there after certain strikes...in this case the elbow...I think in reality IF you planted a solid kick to the groin or lower triangle, then struck their neck with the cupping sword hand (continuing their bending motion) followed by a driving elbow directly onto the spinal column....at this poinnt they should have collapsted to the ground totally...in a heap of flesh...BUT we're practicing here......to the point....after I strike with the elbow I encircle the head with that right arm, getting good control over the head & neck. I now crank their neck (clockwise) as if I was going to do a #1 block....My left hand helps redirect their lower body by pushing up on their right shoulder.....They very easily and very cooperatively roll or risk snapping their neck. They land at a 3:00 position where I finish the technique....

Very interesting. That is most definately nothing that I've ever seen before, but I can certainly picture it. I'll have to find some poor chap at the school to allow me to try that one. I'll make it one of the instructors and I'll fail to tell him what I'm doing, other than a variation of #19.

 

[MJS]

I think the difficulty I've had is ...will the opponent really be there after certain strikes...in this case the elbow...I think in reality IF you planted a solid kick to the groin or lower triangle, then struck their neck with the cupping sword hand (continuing their bending motion) followed by a driving elbow directly onto the spinal column....at this poinnt they should have collapsted to the ground totally...in a heap of flesh...

Very true. I think back to the Fight Quest Kajukenbo espisode, where Jimmy attempted a double leg on that guy he was sparring. Guy did a sprawl and dropped an elbow right down on his back. Needless to say, Jimmy was down for the count.

BUT we're practicing here......to the point....after I strike with the elbow I encircle the head with that right arm, getting good control over the head & neck. I now crank their neck (clockwise) as if I was going to do a #1 block....My left hand helps redirect their lower body by pushing up on their right shoulder.....They very easily and very cooperatively roll or risk snapping their neck. They land at a 3:00 position where I finish the technique....

Another interesting variation. I"ll give it a shot.

 

[marlon]

I think the difficulty I've had is ...will the opponent really be there after certain strikes...in this case the elbow...I think in reality IF you planted a solid kick to the groin or lower triangle, then struck their neck with the cupping sword hand (continuing their bending motion) followed by a driving elbow directly onto the spinal column....at this poinnt they should have collapsted to the ground totally...in a heap of flesh...BUT we're practicing here......to the point....after I strike with the elbow I encircle the head with that right arm, getting good control over the head & neck. I now crank their neck (clockwise) as if I was going to do a #1 block....My left hand helps redirect their lower body by pushing up on their right shoulder.....They very easily and very cooperatively roll or risk snapping their neck. They land at a 3:00 position where I finish the technique....

i love this move...right out of honsuki, right!

marlon

 

[kidswarrior]

I think the difficulty I've had is ...will the opponent really be there after certain strikes...in this case the elbow...I think in reality IF you planted a solid kick to the groin or lower triangle....

May I ask if the *Lower Triangle* is a term widely used? Haven't heard it myself, so am guessing as to meaning, but looks to have potential. :asian:

 

[marlon]

I think the difficulty I've had is ...will the opponent really be there after certain strikes...

this is true. Thatis why while learning the techniques may be static doing them is dynamic. Follow though with your strikes (without killing your partner) and then follow the body. I find most techniques cover more grd. Also itr depends on the depth of your strike as well. I teach elbows to the spine but also teach that to hit with full force to the spine ,esp. downwards , can have serious implications so perhaps this is not an area to ever use full force unless lethality is an option. So sometimes the strikes are for pain and body movement / control

REspectfully,
Marlon

 

[LawDog]

Most of the techniques that flowed from a hand pattern into a kick pattern would usually end up in the wrong zone for that particular kick..
The same held true when flowing from any impacting patterns into a jujitsu / judo technique, you would usually end up in the wrong location, or zone for the technique.

 

[Mark L]

I think 19 has an awesome flow to it. Think about the contiguous cw and ccw blocks/strikes near the end of Swift Tigers. That's how I do 19 after the initial block and kick. Left goes cw down on the back of the neck, the right follows ccw with the elbow while the left circles cw up to the groin, the right elbow follows through the ccw path to push down the neck while the left follows the cw circle to rise up into the groin. It's effortless, the roll (not a throw) simply happens. I see a lot of folks get caught up with really emphasizing the elbow, when it is really a transition strike on the way to pushing down the head.

You see the same kind of thing in Kwai-Sun, Kata Set 2, and Combination Form from Kara-Ho Kempo.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but it's just a simple as "Wax on, wax off" (or I am confusing it with "Sand the Deck").

 

[Jdokan]

i love this move...right out of honsuki, right!

marlon

Yes..

 

[Jdokan]

may i ask if the *lower triangle* is a term widely used? Haven't heard it myself, so am guessing as to meaning, but looks to have potential. :asian:

hip / hip/ groin

 

[Mark L]

#26, I do the elbow and the groin strike simultaneously. It makes sense to me to do it that way, but my instructor insists that the elbow should lead the groin strike. I get what he is saying, getting my arms swaying (like a monkey), but I really like a simultaneous high/low strike on the center line. It has a stunning effect and it leaves the BG vulnerable for the sweep ...

 

[kidswarrior]

hip / hip/ groin

So, an inverted triangle then? Is there a corresponding upper triangle? Thanks. Just haven't heard it put this way before.