SKK Combos and Various Attacks

[marlon]

Are you still using the knife hand/bent wrist combo for this block?

yep

 

[RevIV]

:lol: NO! We need to keep beating the dead horse! :deadhorse

OK, I may need to change my screen name in this section to The Apostate Kempoist...or something jazzier, but along those lines. Cos I've not remained a purist w/ my kempo. Have put some of it through the grid of (an)other art(s). But here goes anyway.

I do 10 as the lunge to 10:30 with a same side knife hand/arm or even a down windmill block (whatever feels natural given the specific attack), and almost simultaneous Right leopard paw to the throat. Right finger hook (fish hook?) to nerve...whatchamacallit--the one that really hurts on the front/side of neck. Spin back 270 degrees with his neck in your Right grasp and his attacking limb still in your Left, driving him into the pavement spine first, and give it the standard finish.

This is pretty strong stuff, and I don't teach it till about 18 months into the program.

Am I nuts, or does any of that make sense? Or, both? :erg:

Explain? 10:30 with left or right foot? Did you take out the strike to the groin? (I do the ridgehand) I like the image though "neck in your right grasp" tear that sucka. Oh and Matt.... Your killin me, you put us back to 7.

 

[kidswarrior]

Explain? 10:30 with left or right foot? Did you take out the strike to the groin? (I do the ridgehand) I like the image though "neck in your right grasp" tear that sucka. Oh and Matt.... Your killin me, you put us back to 7.

10:30 with left foot for his right-limb attack. If I can catch the inside of his knee with my strong lunging horse stance, what a bonus--but not necessary. Similar foot movement to Combo 3, but inside instead of outside.

Yeah, took out the ridge hand to the groin because it required me to drop my right while his left is still cocked, or maybe even already on its way in a follow up swing/combo. I was never fond of my ridge hand to his groin leaving one whole side of my face/body open. Just used too many *chin blocks* in my misspent youth. But my way, my right elbow/forearm should be sufficient to impede any such follow up move by him in the natural course of the leopard strike (or, it can be toned down to an open tiger's mouth/web hand to take it out of the possibly-lethal category).

 

[kidswarrior]

Actually, I'm interested. I think it's a matter of picturing your center mass going in a direction like this "<" so that you evade the kick but your mass is headed toward your target.

There seem to be a lot of movements I do that follow that shape.

This is an interesting concept to me, and one I haven't really contemplated. Have any examples at your fingertips?

Oh, and sorry Jesse. But sometimes discourse is just ugly and disorderly. :bangahead:

 

[MJS]

No it must be a step through right straight punch to the chest that is how we will be attacked!!

LOL!!!

Ok sorry.....

I think 10 lends itself well to the roundhouse kick attack. We are stepping into the attack which is where you want to be on any roundhousing motion. The groin is very exposed for the simo strike (I use a ridge hand). Then grab the leg and wheel back and let him go for a ride.....Of course we still want to follow up once he gets there.

Nice!!

 

[MJS]

yep

Thanks for getting back to me. A few more questions...

Are you concerned about any injury to the hand, specifically the one with the bent wrist when doing this block on a kick? This could simply be me not 'seeing' how its done, as there could very well be some differences between the way you and I are performing this.

What part of the leg are you blocking?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[MJS]

:lol: NO! We need to keep beating the dead horse! :deadhorse

OK, I may need to change my screen name in this section to The Apostate Kempoist...or something jazzier, but along those lines. Cos I've not remained a purist w/ my kempo. Have put some of it through the grid of (an)other art(s). But here goes anyway.

I do 10 as the lunge to 10:30 with a same side knife hand/arm or even a down windmill block (whatever feels natural given the specific attack), and almost simultaneous Right leopard paw to the throat. Right finger hook (fish hook?) to nerve...whatchamacallit--the one that really hurts on the front/side of neck. Spin back 270 degrees with his neck in your Right grasp and his attacking limb still in your Left, driving him into the pavement spine first, and give it the standard finish.

This is pretty strong stuff, and I don't teach it till about 18 months into the program.

Am I nuts, or does any of that make sense? Or, both? :erg:

Just so I'm reading this right. You're doing 10 with a left step on the initial block? Interesting variation. I step with my rt. blocking the punch with my left and a rt. ridgehand to the groin. Wrap the arm, rt. 'bear paw' or palm strike with rt. as I pull them in, step back with lt. taking them down.

 

[marlon]

Thanks for getting back to me. A few more questions...

Are you concerned about any injury to the hand, specifically the one with the bent wrist when doing this block on a kick? This could simply be me not 'seeing' how its done, as there could very well be some differences between the way you and I are performing this.

What part of the leg are you blocking?

Thanks,

Mike

i block above the knee. the bent wrist is either coming up or is used in a swining motion without a hard stop so i do not see any issues with injury...by the way, keeping the bent wrist places your elbow in a very disadvatageous position for the attacker.

marlon

 

[marlon]

Just so I'm reading this right. You're doing 10 with a left step on the initial block? Interesting variation. I step with my rt. blocking the punch with my left and a rt. ridgehand to the groin. Wrap the arm, rt. 'bear paw' or palm strike with rt. as I pull them in, step back with lt. taking them down.

me also

 

[14 Kempo]

Just so I'm reading this right. You're doing 10 with a left step on the initial block? Interesting variation. I step with my rt. blocking the punch with my left and a rt. ridgehand to the groin. Wrap the arm, rt. 'bear paw' or palm strike with rt. as I pull them in, step back with lt. taking them down.

This is also the way we do it, from the beginning. We do vary the strike with the right from 'bear paw' to 'palm' to 'knife' to 'sword' depending on the situation. The importance is places on the wrap and control of the head and upper spine. The takedown can be varied as well, from somewhat gentle to an all out judo type right hip throw.

There are more, but we see its major principle as the first combination that teaches us to control the head/neck/spine region. "Where the head goes, so does the body"

 

[kidswarrior]

Just so I'm reading this right. You're doing 10 with a left step on the initial block? Interesting variation. I step with my rt. blocking the punch with my left and a rt. ridgehand to the groin. Wrap the arm, rt. 'bear paw' or palm strike with rt. as I pull them in, step back with lt. taking them down.

Yep, left block/left *step*--a very aggressive 'block' meant to stop their momentum dead, and even unbalance them.

This is also the way we do it, from the beginning. We do vary the strike with the right from 'bear paw' to 'palm' to 'knife' to 'sword' depending on the situation.

Later, I teach (or probably, more accurately the student discovers on his own ) variations in the strike such as you've listed. But I don't do the lower strike (ridge to groin, or whatever), since it impedes the flow of the tech the way we do it. The leopard paw, or half-fist, to the throat--even missing slightly and hitting the front/side of neck--has plenty of stopping power/shock value--especially since his forward momentum (throat) is meeting ours (all squeezed into the ridge formed by the line of second knuckles).

And then for the take down, the fingers digging into the nerve as the push, along with the Left grab/pulling right arm, with a back spin. Follows the old shuai chiao principle of push/pull for a take down.

The importance is places on the wrap and control of the head and upper spine.

Good point.

 

[14 Kempo]

Yep, left block/left *step*--a very aggressive 'block' meant to stop their momentum dead, and even unbalance them.

Later, I teach (or probably, more accurately the student discovers on his own ) variations in the strike such as you've listed. But I don't do the lower strike (ridge to groin, or whatever), since it impedes the flow of the tech the way we do it. The leopard paw, or half-fist, to the throat--even missing slightly and hitting the front/side of neck--has plenty of stopping power/shock value--especially since his forward momentum (throat) is meeting ours (all squeezed into the ridge formed by the line of second knuckles).

And then for the take down, the fingers digging into the nerve as the push, along with the Left grab/pulling right arm, with a back spin. Follows the old shuai chiao principle of push/pull for a take down.

Good point.

Yeah, I like the idea of going straight to the throat and it is something we use at higher ranks. I like it, thanks.

 

[marlon]

Yep, left block/left *step*--a very aggressive 'block' meant to stop their momentum dead, and even unbalance them.

Interesting the differences, we do this technique with more of an aikido flow to it. there is no stop until the assailant is on the ground. i want thier momentum to become my tool.

respectfully,
marlon

 

[marlon]

i say, lets skip the long drawn out discussion of 8 and 9 combo cuz they are just both combo 6 with an extension and we see how long it took on 7, so what do you say about combo 10. I love it. Simo block and strike, stepping in with right foot, then simo trap and strike to ear continued with a circular flow take down with no sweep followed by knife hands and dislocating the shoulder. short and simple version..
Jesse

sorry Jesse. i know that you already do not like many of my posts and now i am bring us back to 6. But you see 8 and 9 are not simply extensions of 6 for me. Basically 6 is a quick straight kick top the lower body to stop a forward attack. The biginners are always taught the double block..or as Prof. Kimo called it the sun and moon block. this is a place in SK where Doc's term "indexes and indices of knowledge" is true for us. the double block is not necessary to 6 but the movement taught at beginnier level teaches the continuous motion that is kempo and is related to the multiple hammer strikes that sit at the core of my kempo systems. It teaches to check / eliminate the aggressors weapons through skeletal manipulation; cover movement; high low striking;a host of limb destruction concepts; hidden movement/attacks/ controls...and going outside the attack. 8 specifically goes inside the attack zone and eliminates possible counter attack with a low level strike to the groin or knees and distractracts with the pain mechanism from the initial block. 9 is closer to 6 in that the front kick stops the forward momentum and allows for control of the forward limb and teaches skeletal manipulation and control of an attackers balance by bringing a single limb to ones center. Both 8 and 9 teach flow to the natural target through follow up strikes with the same limb (the leg)....or i could be delusional
so i do not see them as subsets or extensions of 6. i find the contain very different and valueable knowledge about kempo even though each separate piece may not be completely necessary to the technique
Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

Yeah, I like the idea of going straight to the throat and it is something we use at higher ranks. I like it, thanks.

which techniques do you go straight to the throat with? Just curious

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

10 is great from a standing clinch..replace the ridge to the groin with a blade or front kick to the inner thigh, rotate your hands counter clockwise the left wraping the opponents arm btwn the shoulder and the elbow pressing in a downwards circle ccw towards the attackers lower center the right hand strikes the ear if possible to further disrupt the balance and pulls the head (twisted so the face is turning towwards your rt shoulder) then front kick the opponents right inner thigh or do a sweep as you turn your torso ccw ansd slam them into the ground. the head must go back a little to effect the twist \and then should be brought as close to your chest as possible. it can work as a reversal if someone is attempting to pin you on your back except the skeletal manipulation of the left arm wrap and pressure on the elbow in orderto turn the shoulder needs more emphasis.

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[14 Kempo]

which techniques do you go straight to the throat with? Just curious

Respectfully,
Marlon

Not neccessarily combinations, but many techniques, we call them kempos. However, there are some variations of the combinations where we will do this ...
#1: Block and wrap with the left, Tiger's mouth to the throat with the right.
#11: Block with the left, right trigger finger, left crosshand shuto to the throat.
#13: Block with the left, right punch to the temple, scissor strike to the throat/neck.
#16: Parry block with the left, right leopard paw to the throat.
#20: Left outward block, right tiger's mouth to the throat.
#22: Right upward block, left spear to the throat.
#24: After the initial block, scissor strike to the throat/neck.
#25: Spear hand to the throat.
That to list some, again, many of these are from variations and variations of the combinations are, in our style, called kempo techniques, or simply kempos.

 

[marlon]

Not neccessarily combinations, but many techniques, we call them kempos. However, there are some variations of the combinations where we will do this ...
#1: Block and wrap with the left, Tiger's mouth to the throat with the right.
#11: Block with the left, right trigger finger, left crosshand shuto to the throat.
#13: Block with the left, right punch to the temple, scissor strike to the throat/neck.
#16: Parry block with the left, right leopard paw to the throat.
#20: Left outward block, right tiger's mouth to the throat.
#22: Right upward block, left spear to the throat.
#24: After the initial block, scissor strike to the throat/neck.
#25: Spear hand to the throat.
That to list some, again, many of these are from variations and variations of the combinations are, in our style, called kempo techniques, or simply kempos.

thanks...i would be interested in knowing oneof your kempo's that go straight for the throat. we have a few also.

marlon

 

[RevIV]

sorry Jesse. i know that you already do not like many of my posts and now i am bring us back to 6. But you see 8 and 9 are not simply extensions of 6 for me. Marlon

Haaa,, Marlon I love your posts i just didnt think my mind right now could go through 4 more pages of a kick combo. Do and say whatever you want,, I can always scan past if my ADD kicks in..

 

[marlon]

Haaa,, Marlon I love your posts i just didnt think my mind right now could go through 4 more pages of a kick combo. Do and say whatever you want,, I can always scan past if my ADD kicks in..

so many reasons to like you sir