SKK Combos and Various Attacks

[MJS]

step in and start with the block above the knee of the offending leg.

marlon

Are you still using the knife hand/bent wrist combo for this block?

 

[Hand Sword]

Taking a front, side, or round kick, for me I start with the knife/bent wrist block but slide the arms parrying the kicks, and stretching the attacker out, off balancing them. As I put it earlier, you start that way, and end like those point fighters used to do to protect the body.



As for #6 combo, I was taught originally with no block, just a kick to the gut to outlength a punch with your leg. Then, the kick went to the ribs, with a pressing block. Then, we dragon trapped with a kick to the groin. Last was a dragon trap/ or pressing block and a front ball kick to the groin, gut, or knee.

#7 combo was originally a side step and side kick to the ribs. Then an instructor from the West coast came in and taught it as a side blade kick. Never liking that for a kick, and getting new, east coaster instructors, it was a side step and and a kick to the knee after the punch goes through. Their weight is forward on that supporting leg and the side kick to the knee drops them.

 

[Mark L]

We do #6 with a double block, kick target is the solar plexus or floating ribs. Legs are longer than arms

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#7 side step followed by side thrust kick to the ribs, the step direction and depth is guaged by the depth of attack. 14 Kempo's variation with a back kick is a pretty cool idea, looking forward to trying that out.

 

[DavidCC]

so, not too concerend with body mass moving in one direction, strike going in opposite direction?

and the move to 1030 doubles it... your mass moving to 1030, kick to 430, attacker moving away at same time... your masses are moving away from each other and your kick is chasing him. How much power can you get on that? Oh, I know you are going to say "plenty" LOL

But how much relative to a kick where your masses are moving toward each other and your kick is in line with your momentum? 20%?

 

[14 Kempo]

so, not too concerend with body mass moving in one direction, strike going in opposite direction?

and the move to 1030 doubles it... your mass moving to 1030, kick to 430, attacker moving away at same time... your masses are moving away from each other and your kick is chasing him. How much power can you get on that? Oh, I know you are going to say "plenty" LOL

But how much relative to a kick where your masses are moving toward each other and your kick is in line with your momentum? 20%?

First of all, if you're doing the technique properly and understand how to root your stance, you are not moving when deploying the kick. Yes, the attacker is moving, agreed, the kick won't be of full power, but will be effective in creating distance between you and the attacker. Can't always think you're going to end things with a single blow.

Secondly, after you avoid the original attack, the attacker's normal response will be to catch himself and right himself, thus he will be correcting himself back into the direction your kick is being delivered from, adding to it a certain amount of force.

 

[RevIV]

Seems like a lot of words to me, Get out of the way, kick real hard, if person does not fall down,,,, repeat.
Now that i have that out of my system.... When i practice this technique there are always variations, I was taught it as dodge Left, pivot and blast with the side thrust kick to ribs, my body more at 7 and theirs at 2 or so. What do you say we all move to another technique? just a thought.

 

[MJS]

Taking a front, side, or round kick, for me I start with the knife/bent wrist block but slide the arms parrying the kicks, and stretching the attacker out, off balancing them. As I put it earlier, you start that way, and end like those point fighters used to do to protect the body.

I'm not getting a good picture in my mind with this, so I'll need to use an actual body to test it. Personally, just due to the structure of the hands, I don't feel that this block would be wise to do against a kick. Again, perhaps if I work it on a body, I'd have a different result.

As for #6 combo, I was taught originally with no block, just a kick to the gut to outlength a punch with your leg. Then, the kick went to the ribs, with a pressing block. Then, we dragon trapped with a kick to the groin. Last was a dragon trap/ or pressing block and a front ball kick to the groin, gut, or knee.

#7 combo was originally a side step and side kick to the ribs. Then an instructor from the West coast came in and taught it as a side blade kick. Never liking that for a kick, and getting new, east coaster instructors, it was a side step and and a kick to the knee after the punch goes through. Their weight is forward on that supporting leg and the side kick to the knee drops them.

6: I originally learned it with the block and then front kick. Ribs, groin...whatever target was available.

7: side kick to the ribs is how I learned this. No block

 

[MJS]

so, not too concerend with body mass moving in one direction, strike going in opposite direction?

and the move to 1030 doubles it... your mass moving to 1030, kick to 430, attacker moving away at same time... your masses are moving away from each other and your kick is chasing him. How much power can you get on that? Oh, I know you are going to say "plenty" LOL

But how much relative to a kick where your masses are moving toward each other and your kick is in line with your momentum? 20%?

First of all, if you're doing the technique properly and understand how to root your stance, you are not moving when deploying the kick. Yes, the attacker is moving, agreed, the kick won't be of full power, but will be effective in creating distance between you and the attacker. Can't always think you're going to end things with a single blow.

Secondly, after you avoid the original attack, the attacker's normal response will be to catch himself and right himself, thus he will be correcting himself back into the direction your kick is being delivered from, adding to it a certain amount of force.

I have to agree with 14Kempo on this. I'm not moving...I've already replanted, when I throw the kick. I'm also not kicking to 4:30.

Mike

 

[DavidCC]

Well, this probably gets back to the level of detail in the descriptions etc. I've gotten accustomed to much more detail in describing and teaching, I guess, than "just move and kick" LOL. We examine and teach specifically how to use and change your momentum and stuff that it seems most of you guys either just pick up through exposure/osmosis/practice or teach much later than yellow.

We observed a few years ago that the deepest lessons of SKK seemed to be nonverbal, that is, feel it/do it kindof thing. We set out to change that, so that sortof why I am raising these detailed execution questions...

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'if you're doing the technique properly and understand how to root your stance, you are not moving when deploying the kick'

I guess that depends on what you mean by "not moving". Look at a tree blown by the wind. Is it moving?

if you hopped or stepped to 730, and then at some point "stopped moving" towards 730 so that you could kick back to 130, you changed your momentum, whcih is exactly what I was addressing


"...but will be effective in creating distance between you and the attacker. Can't always think you're going to end things with a single blow."

I try to do just the opposite, unless I am trying to disengage or dealing with multiple attackers etc. We train to fight at close range. If you get in close, stay there, don't make or let him make distance.

Second, if the technique doesn't end with the attacker unable to attack you again, why does it stop there? No I am not assuming that a technique will be done in entirety in a real confrontation, but why train combos that end with you at long range and an attacker who is still able to attack?


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"Secondly, after you avoid the original attack, the attacker's normal response will be to catch himself and right himself, thus he will be correcting himself back into the direction your kick is being delivered from, adding to it a certain amount of force."

Exactly, giving you plenty of time to shift your momentum so that you can get back-up mass into the kick. Which is why I wrote
"I find that if I use my left leg as a spring, absorbing my momentum and launching it back to 130, this take 1/2 beat longer but... in that half beat Mr. Attacker is probably going to turn to attack me, and he will eat my side kick with full momentum behind it, right down the center to his solar plexus, best case is he is throwing a left punch, because then he adds his momentum too"

 

[JTKenpo]

I'm not getting a good picture in my mind with this, so I'll need to use an actual body to test it. Personally, just due to the structure of the hands, I don't feel that this block would be wise to do against a kick. Again, perhaps if I work it on a body, I'd have a different result.

Think right inward block and left downward block at the same time.

 

[JTKenpo]

Well, this probably gets back to the level of detail in the descriptions etc. I've gotten accustomed to much more detail in describing and teaching, I guess, than "just move and kick" LOL. We examine and teach specifically how to use and change your momentum and stuff that it seems most of you guys either just pick up through exposure/osmosis/practice or teach much later than yellow.

We observed a few years ago that the deepest lessons of SKK seemed to be nonverbal, that is, feel it/do it kindof thing. We set out to change that, so that sortof why I am raising these detailed execution questions...

------------------

'if you're doing the technique properly and understand how to root your stance, you are not moving when deploying the kick'

I guess that depends on what you mean by "not moving". Look at a tree blown by the wind. Is it moving?

if you hopped or stepped to 730, and then at some point "stopped moving" towards 730 so that you could kick back to 130, you changed your momentum, whcih is exactly what I was addressing


"...but will be effective in creating distance between you and the attacker. Can't always think you're going to end things with a single blow."

I try to do just the opposite, unless I am trying to disengage or dealing with multiple attackers etc. We train to fight at close range. If you get in close, stay there, don't make or let him make distance.

Second, if the technique doesn't end with the attacker unable to attack you again, why does it stop there? No I am not assuming that a technique will be done in entirety in a real confrontation, but why train combos that end with you at long range and an attacker who is still able to attack?


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"Secondly, after you avoid the original attack, the attacker's normal response will be to catch himself and right himself, thus he will be correcting himself back into the direction your kick is being delivered from, adding to it a certain amount of force."

Exactly, giving you plenty of time to shift your momentum so that you can get back-up mass into the kick. Which is why I wrote
"I find that if I use my left leg as a spring, absorbing my momentum and launching it back to 130, this take 1/2 beat longer but... in that half beat Mr. Attacker is probably going to turn to attack me, and he will eat my side kick with full momentum behind it, right down the center to his solar plexus, best case is he is throwing a left punch, because then he adds his momentum too"

The theory is good but Jesse is right the application can be summed up by move then kick.

I'm not interested in a debate on "my 7 is better then your 7" the only thing I want to point out is that in every situation mentioned previously every one moves then kicks and that is the end of the combo (cross and cover out I hope), so David yes you are ending the combo there. Thats not to say that will end the confrontation and it isn't to say that it won't.

And yes I think it is time to move on as well, but thats just me.

Does anyone have any interesting attack variations on the next couple of techniques?

 

[DavidCC]

every one moves then kicks and that is the end of the combo

well, I was trying to discuss HOW to move and HOW to kick for maximum efficiency. Apparently not an intersting topic LOL.

 

[MJS]

Think right inward block and left downward block at the same time.

Yes, that makes more sense and IMO serves as a more solid block. I thought it was being suggested, and maybe it is, that the typical block in #5 is used.

 

[JTKenpo]

well, I was trying to discuss HOW to move and HOW to kick for maximum efficiency. Apparently not an intersting topic LOL.

Its not that it isn't an interesting topic the problem lies with the "I know best, do it my way or be wrong" type attitude. I'm not saying that anyone actually feels that way but thats how it comes off sounding. Honestly "HOW to move and HOW to kick".

 

[RevIV]

i say, lets skip the long drawn out discussion of 8 and 9 combo cuz they are just both combo 6 with an extension and we see how long it took on 7, so what do you say about combo 10. I love it. Simo block and strike, stepping in with right foot, then simo trap and strike to ear continued with a circular flow take down with no sweep followed by knife hands and dislocating the shoulder. short and simple version..
Jesse

 

[MJS]

well, I was trying to discuss HOW to move and HOW to kick for maximum efficiency. Apparently not an intersting topic LOL.

Lets talk about it then. If we look at the description of 7 here, it says...

Step out on a 45 degree angle with the left foot and then deliver a side blade kick with the right foot to the floating ribs, then cross and cover.

So going on that, I interpret that as stepping up not back on the 45. Depending on how the person punches, ie: cross or step thru, the step can be slightly modified. Going on the written version that I linked, will you get max. efficiency?

 

[MJS]

i say, lets skip the long drawn out discussion of 8 and 9 combo cuz they are just both combo 6 with an extension and we see how long it took on 7, so what do you say about combo 10. I love it. Simo block and strike, stepping in with right foot, then simo trap and strike to ear continued with a circular flow take down with no sweep followed by knife hands and dislocating the shoulder. short and simple version..
Jesse

I agree, it is a good tech. As for other possible attacks...a right push, and if the angle is right, a kick as well.

 

[JTKenpo]

I agree, it is a good tech. As for other possible attacks...a right push, and if the angle is right, a kick as well.

No it must be a step through right straight punch to the chest that is how we will be attacked!!


Ok sorry.....

I think 10 lends itself well to the roundhouse kick attack. We are stepping into the attack which is where you want to be on any roundhousing motion. The groin is very exposed for the simo strike (I use a ridge hand). Then grab the leg and wheel back and let him go for a ride.....Of course we still want to follow up once he gets there.

 

[Matt]

well, I was trying to discuss HOW to move and HOW to kick for maximum efficiency. Apparently not an intersting topic LOL.

Actually, I'm interested. I think it's a matter of picturing your center mass going in a direction like this "<" so that you evade the kick but your mass is headed toward your target.

There seem to be a lot of movements I do that follow that shape.

 

[kidswarrior]

Seems like a lot of words to me, Get out of the way, kick real hard, if person does not fall down,,,, repeat.

:lol: NO! We need to keep beating the dead horse! :deadhorse

...i say, lets skip the long drawn out discussion of 8 and 9 combo ...so what do you say about combo 10. I love it.

OK, I may need to change my screen name in this section to The Apostate Kempoist...or something jazzier, but along those lines. Cos I've not remained a purist w/ my kempo. Have put some of it through the grid of (an)other art(s). But here goes anyway.

I do 10 as the lunge to 10:30 with a same side knife hand/arm or even a down windmill block (whatever feels natural given the specific attack), and almost simultaneous Right leopard paw to the throat. Right finger hook (fish hook?) to nerve...whatchamacallit--the one that really hurts on the front/side of neck. Spin back 270 degrees with his neck in your Right grasp and his attacking limb still in your Left, driving him into the pavement spine first, and give it the standard finish.

This is pretty strong stuff, and I don't teach it till about 18 months into the program.

Am I nuts, or does any of that make sense? Or, both? :erg: