Skill Or Knowledge

[safeeagle]

I Wanted To Add My Thoughts On This Topic. Is Skill A Test Of A Black Belt Or Is It Knowledge. So Your A Great Technician And In Great Shape. Then You Become Paralized. My Thoughts Are Your Still Just As Much A Black Belt. My Thoughts Are The Color Of Your Belt Is More A Sign Of Knowledge And Maturity Than Skill. What's Everyones Thoughts On This?

 

[Bammx2]

For whatever my two bits may be worth on this subject....

When I look for a teacher,I look for knowledge rather that skill.
People change,things happen(as you pointed out) that can't be helped.
When I teach.....
I believe training a good fighter is great.
I'd rather train better teachers though....
call me kooky....

 

[Miles]

If you are looking for an instructor, I think you should seek both skill and knowledge.

The problem is that brand new students don't know what to look for-they see some guy or gal in a uniform with a black belt and think he/she is qualified to teach. Or they see someone who is able to do something they can not and assume that person can teach.

I understand that as one ages one's skills may diminish. But, I think that if one trains consistently, they will still be skillful for someone of like age. Knowledge never diminishes...

Miles

 

[rmcrobertson]

Unless there's been a car accident, you had BETTER be able to embody your art, or you don't have one.

Mostly, people who can't show what they know don't know anything to show....because martial arts, like piano playing, is a fusion of theory with practice.

Of course there is such a thing as the instructor who doesn't show off, or even show in ways that beginning students can recognize at all. But even then--look up the late careers of, say, Morehei Ueshiba or Cheng Man-Ching or Gene Le Bell--the best instructors are out there on the mat or in the yard, teaching and working out. You'll see, if you look.

 

[VSanhodo]

I see both sides of this question. If a person is capable of being on the floor teaching then clealry I think they should be. However, If a person is knowledgable they should be able to teach even if they can no longer do what they used to be able to do. For examply Muhammad Ali is nolonger able to box but if I wanted to leanr how to box I wouldnt hesitate to allow him to teach me. I look for knowledge, usually if one is knowledgable they have skill.
My instructor was in his late 70's when he passed and while he clealry couldnt not do many of the things he use to when he was younger, he was still a very dangerous man. I was fortunate and lbessed enough to have been able to attend his last seminar held in the USA at that time he was 77 or so and he looked like poetry in motion. We would sit and talk and he would explain things to me. I use to ask him where in the world are you coming up wth this???? He would usually laugh and simply reply, I old now no can do as good as used to so have plenty of time to think things out in my mind. Now you go out on floor and do for me.

God Bless, Mr Tanaka for finding me worthy enough to share your skill and knowledge with me. (R.I.P.)

 

[Simon Curran]

I see both sides of this question. If a person is capable of being on the floor teaching then clealry I think they should be. However, If a person is knowledgable they should be able to teach even if they can no longer do what they used to be able to do. For examply Muhammad Ali is nolonger able to box but if I wanted to leanr how to box I wouldnt hesitate to allow him to teach me. I look for knowledge, usually if one is knowledgable they have skill.
My instructor was in his late 70's when he passed and while he clealry couldnt not do many of the things he use to when he was younger, he was still a very dangerous man. I was fortunate and lbessed enough to have been able to attend his last seminar held in the USA at that time he was 77 or so and he looked like poetry in motion. We would sit and talk and he would explain things to me. I use to ask him where in the world are you coming up wth this???? He would usually laugh and simply reply, I old now no can do as good as used to so have plenty of time to think things out in my mind. Now you go out on floor and do for me.

God Bless, Mr Tanaka for finding me worthy enough to share your skill and knowledge with me. (R.I.P.)

Great story, and great philosophy

 

[MJS]

I see both sides of this question. If a person is capable of being on the floor teaching then clealry I think they should be. However, If a person is knowledgable they should be able to teach even if they can no longer do what they used to be able to do. For examply Muhammad Ali is nolonger able to box but if I wanted to leanr how to box I wouldnt hesitate to allow him to teach me. I look for knowledge, usually if one is knowledgable they have skill.
My instructor was in his late 70's when he passed and while he clealry couldnt not do many of the things he use to when he was younger, he was still a very dangerous man. I was fortunate and lbessed enough to have been able to attend his last seminar held in the USA at that time he was 77 or so and he looked like poetry in motion. We would sit and talk and he would explain things to me. I use to ask him where in the world are you coming up wth this???? He would usually laugh and simply reply, I old now no can do as good as used to so have plenty of time to think things out in my mind. Now you go out on floor and do for me.

God Bless, Mr Tanaka for finding me worthy enough to share your skill and knowledge with me. (R.I.P.)

Exactly!! Some people are awesome when it comes to kata, but they couldn't spar to save their life. Some are excellent when it comes to SD, but their katas are weak.

Everyone has something to offer. If one feels that they are not getting what they're looking for, and they wish to improve on that, they need to seek out someone who can guide them down the road they're looking for.

Mike

 

[terryl965]

Skill over time will deminses, knowledge never leaves one's inner place, with that being said, you have had to have the ability at one time to fully understand all applications of your said art. the person just can't pick up a book and read how to do things and twenty year later become a Master of those books and start to teach the proper application without first hand knowledge of said application. Martial Arts is a funny thing without proper training you can learn but never really learn.

 

[searcher]

Unless there's been a car accident, you had BETTER be able to embody your art, or you don't have one.

Mostly, people who can't show what they know don't know anything to show....because martial arts, like piano playing, is a fusion of theory with practice.

Of course there is such a thing as the instructor who doesn't show off, or even show in ways that beginning students can recognize at all. But even then--look up the late careers of, say, Morehei Ueshiba or Cheng Man-Ching or Gene Le Bell--the best instructors are out there on the mat or in the yard, teaching and working out. You'll see, if you look.

Very well said. You do have to have a balnce of both. It can slide a little either way, but truly must have both.

 

[TigerWoman]

Whats the saying... may not have it right...age and treachery will overcome youth and skill. Age, wisdom, knowledge... Treachery, not a good word but also meaning knowledge how to use skill in this instance. But at some point, our bodies just start falling apart from age and misuse. How can you teach a jump spin heel without showing it and no high belts in class? I think you do have to keep up your skills or have someone assist and show it properly. That was an inspiring story VSanhodo. You were a lucky man to have such a teacher. TW

 

[Nanalo74]

I think it boils down to what we mean by "knowledge". If by knowledge we mean merely the accumulation of facts in a scholarly enterprise such as an historian who writes books or articles about martial arts without actually training, then this would be a person I would like to take a college course from, not train with.

If, however, we are referring to knowledge of the arts from a practitioner's point of view, then from this perspective true knowledge can only come from practical application. Muhammad Ali's knowledge of boxing comes from having worked his way to the top and staying there for years. Though the ravages of time and age have made him incapable of doing as he once did, his battle-proven wisdom is invaluable.

Bert Sugar on the other hand was a boxing historian. Would I neccessarily seek him out as my trainer? I think not, but I would certainly attend a lecture of his on the history of western boxing in the United States.
Vic www.combatartusa.com

 

[Drifter]

I think there needs to be a balance.

If they have no skill, but all the knowledge of the facets of your particular art, that's nice, but some things can't just be articulated.

If they have a tremendous amount of skill, but can't explain how, or why to do something, then they really aren't a teacher at all.

If they have a great amount of skill, and a great amount of knowledge, then they have something to give.

I also think some of it is how you learn. Some people can learn by watching, and others need the verbal assistance. Either way, the instructor should be able to explain the 'why'.

 

[Nanalo74]

I think there needs to be a balance.

If they have no skill, but all the knowledge of the facets of your particular art, that's nice, but some things can't just be articulated.

If they have a tremendous amount of skill, but can't explain how, or why to do something, then they really aren't a teacher at all.

If they have a great amount of skill, and a great amount of knowledge, then they have something to give.

I also think some of it is how you learn. Some people can learn by watching, and others need the verbal assistance. Either way, the instructor should be able to explain the 'why'.

Agreed! There are great fighters who are terrible teachers, and there are some good teachers who weren't neccessarily the best fighters, but know how to impart the word, so-to-speak.

BTW, just realized I wrote "Bert Sugar was...". I meant "Bert Sugar is...". Bert is very much alive, just saw him the other day at the Copa. Oops. :uhyeah:

Vic www.combatartsusa.com

 

[47MartialMan]

I see both sides of this question. If a person is capable of being on the floor teaching then clealry I think they should be. However, If a person is knowledgable they should be able to teach even if they can no longer do what they used to be able to do. For examply Muhammad Ali is nolonger able to box but if I wanted to leanr how to box I wouldnt hesitate to allow him to teach me. I look for knowledge, usually if one is knowledgable they have skill.
My instructor was in his late 70's when he passed and while he clealry couldnt not do many of the things he use to when he was younger, he was still a very dangerous man. I was fortunate and lbessed enough to have been able to attend his last seminar held in the USA at that time he was 77 or so and he looked like poetry in motion. We would sit and talk and he would explain things to me. I use to ask him where in the world are you coming up wth this???? He would usually laugh and simply reply, I old now no can do as good as used to so have plenty of time to think things out in my mind. Now you go out on floor and do for me.

God Bless, Mr Tanaka for finding me worthy enough to share your skill and knowledge with me. (R.I.P.)

Yes- how true. This gets into another debate about a instructor having to be in physical shape to teach.

 

[terryl965]

physical shape for who, I mean does he have to look a certain way for you to train with. Martial Arts has so many shapes and sizes of people there are people 20 to 50 lbs overwieght but could kill you with a single bloe and then there the guy that looks like he spends all day in the gym and could not break a paper bag with a kick. Do not over look the person who you believe is out of shape.

 

[47MartialMan]

Yes, i understand that, but we are talking about knowledge or skill. Some people that a person lacks either or both of these with fitness and age.