Should prostitution be legal?

[sgtmac_46]

One issue that doesn't seem to have been brought up here is human trafficking. Human trafficking of women is very prevalent because prostitution is illegal. In countries like Thailand women are often forced into prostitution with little chance of escape. The reason being that many women have a hard time explaining to authorities it was forced prostitution and as a result they feel as if they have no way out. If they try to escape and get caught then the madam or pimp can accuse the forced prostitutes of voluntary prostitution. Even if the madam or pimp gets punished for doing so the prostitutes still have to worry about getting in jail (which they have even less freedom).

I read this in an article a few months ago, if I find it I'll post it.

Human trafficking and virtual slavery was one of the rallying cries that ended legal prostitution in this country. As I pointed out earlier, it wasn't christian men who ended slavery in the US, it was the firsts feminists, who decried the objectification and commodity trading of women. I find it ironic that the pendulum has swung in the other direction.

This issue is pretty ironic on the feminist front. It's a lot like pornography. Some feminists believe pornography is liberating, allowing free sexual expression. Others believe pornography is mysogynistic. Ultimately, pornography and prostitution are female issues. Men will buy it, if it's available.

Again, the idea that prostitution is banned for some stodgy male dominated religious reason is bogus. Most male dominated cultures endorse and openly operate prostitution. The Romans operated brothels as part of every day business, and it was culturally encouraged for men to visit them. It is still lawful in some parts of the world to have the wives of debtors 'imprisoned' in debtors brothels, to 'work off' the debt.

 

[heretic888]

Again, the idea that prostitution is banned for some stodgy male dominated religious reason is bogus. Most male dominated cultures endorse and openly operate prostitution.

Perhaps so, but most male-dominated societies were not initially founded by groups of neurotic Puritan ascetics.

I truly wonder if most Americans realize how so much of their so-called "morality" stems directly from communities of intolerant religious zealots.

Laterz.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Perhaps so, but most male-dominated societies were not initially founded by groups of neurotic Puritan ascetics.

I truly wonder if most Americans realize how so much of their so-called "morality" stems directly from communities of intolerant religious zealots.

Laterz.

America wasn't founded by Puritan ascetics, either. Prostitution has a rich tradition in American culture. What's more, it wasn't the 'Puritans' that brought about the end of Prostitution, it was the early feminists.

Also, your over-emphasis of Puritanism is really based on ignorance of the roots of such movements that resulted in the end of Prostitution and banned Alcohol for a time. Puritanism and the Calvinistic views it followed began declining at the beginning of the Second Great Awakening, starting in the 1830's.

The Protestant Evangelical sects in the US began turning away from Calvinism, which is a central tenet of Puritanism, chiefly being that man has a sinful nature that cannot be changed without a direct intervention of God. In other words, man is inherently sinful. A belief in predestination was central. The belief that men were either damned and doomed or predestined for heaven, not by their own choice, but they a pre-made decision of God. Some men were predestined to heaven, some to hell. Some were predestined to be free men, some to be slaves. A man's lot was God's choice. Though Puritans believed owning slaves was wrong, they certainly felt no real compunction to pursue and end, as they believed God would make that decision.

The new Evangelical's believed in the inherent ability of man toward goodness, in stark contrast to the Puritans. It is that belief in mans inherent ability toward goodness that lead many Evangelicals to convert others. They believed that men could reform, and could achieve 'salvation'.

It was this inherent belief in free will that led many New Protestants of the 2nd Great Awakening to begin to start attacking social evils. They railed against sin, such as prostitution and drunkeness. They pursued and end to what they viewed as the EVIL institution of Slavery.

So, again, you are mistaken to blame prostitutions end in America on Puritans, calvinistic beliefs would not cause them to pursue an end to such an institution any more than they fought for an end to slavery. You have the Protestants of the 2nd Great Awakening, the same people response for pushing and end to slavery, i.e. BOTH Evangelical Protestants AND Early Feminists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism


Again, it is less religious belief, than the belief that prostitution is tantamount to objectification of women, by way of reducing the value of a woman to a cash commodity, that resulted in it's becoming illegal. That religion played a role is only an indication to the extent that women of that era embraced a new version of Christianity more in line with their familial views.

Ironically, as I noted before, feminists are of two schools of thought. One school theorizes "prostitution as an act of sexual self-determination, decry discrimination and demand destigmatization and decriminalization; women are supposed to be adults who can choose what they wish to do with their bodies. In that view, the moral prohibition of prostitution is just mere masked patriarchal moralism, with a traditional view of considering women to be incapable of making decisions for themselves."

Contradictory, "Others, exemplified by the American radical feminist and ex-prostitute Andrea Dworkin, consider it to be sexual abuse or even rape; the prostitutes are then victims, who must be protected from the abuse of the clients and pimps. The former group pushed a law reform in Germany, resulting in January 2002 in the recognition of prostitution as a regular profession, making it possible for prostitutes to join the social security and health care system and to form trade unions. The latter faction of feminists was able in Sweden in 1999 to implement the law outlawing the buying of sexual favors"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution

Again, I point to the fact that, ultimately, prostitution isn't a religious debate, but a feminist debate. Women should ultimately determine if prostitution should be legal, as they will be the ultimate 'product' of legalized prostitution.

 

[Shaolinwind]

Well ... it seems it is because our government wants to intrude into our lives ... I believe it is the Libertarian position that the government should not be invovled in our lives in this manner.

Outdated morals are in government like a nut rusted onto a bolt.

 

[7starmantis]

Well, Nevada and some European countries do pretty well, by insisting on licenses and heavy govt. oversight.

I dont know that I would say they do pretty well. Do we have some research on how well they keep prostitution to the legal licenses and "official" houses?

Thats my point in america, how on earth could we even dream of regulating it? Legal or not, the regulation of it is seriously impossible. So if it should be legal its not for the reason of taxation and regulation.

7sm

 

[arnisador]

It is still lawful in some parts of the world to have the wives of debtors 'imprisoned' in debtors brothels, to 'work off' the debt.

Where?

 

[arnisador]

I dont know that I would say they do pretty well. Do we have some research on how well they keep prostitution to the legal licenses and "official" houses?

Well, in Nevada it's only in rural counties so I believe that it is pretty well restricted to the houses only there--there aren't really big streets to walk, and the county makes a ton of cash off of the operation and so has a significant motivation to limit it to the (taxed) houses. Of course, it's different in Las Vegas and Reno where it's illegal.

I don't know about Holland etc.

 

[7starmantis]

I just dont think I can believe without some type of definitive source that prostitution is exclusively committed within the taxed houses. Street walking is simply not the bigest portion of prostitution...its the dirty stank underarm of prostitution. The real stuff goes on a much different scale.

7sm

 

[arnisador]

I just dont think I can believe without some type of definitive source that prostitution is exclusively committed within the taxed houses.

Neither can I. As it turns out, no one seems to be claiming that. I have no doubt that there exists some streetwalking, the occasional massage parlor, and a woman who dates a rich man only because he buys her meals and clothes. But the county in which such a house operates licenses the house and the workers, so they have an incentive to drive traffic there a.) for the taxes, and b.) to keep the brothel owner happy. Typically these establishments are the largest tax-generators for these small, sparsely populated counties. Everyone has a financial incentive to encourage potential customers to frequent the legal alternative. In addition, as these are small, rural counties an hour or more outside of large cities, there will only be enough customers if the place is advertised in Reno or Las Vegas. An illegal operation would have difficulty with that. Those coming by car or bus to the legal establishment would have to be flagged down somewhere along there dusty route.

My understanding is that it works pretty well.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Where?

It's called debt bondage, women are required to pay the debts incurred by family, often in sweat shops or in brothels. In some places it's legal, in others the authorities simply turn a blind eye.

What's more, they are never told how much debt they owe, or how long they will be required to pay it, or even how much they are making. Plus, fees are deducted for food, housing and provisions, insuring they will ALWAYS be in debt to the house.

http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/India.htm
http://www.satyamag.com/june03/reitz.html
http://www.devp.org/slavery/bondage.html
http://www.mit.edu/people/etekle/Index/
http://www.pucl.org/from-archives/Child/prostitution.htm
http://www.iabolish.com/today/background/worldwide-evil.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

 

[7starmantis]

Neither can I. As it turns out, no one seems to be claiming that. I have no doubt that there exists some streetwalking, the occasional massage parlor, and a woman who dates a rich man only because he buys her meals and clothes. But the county in which such a house operates licenses the house and the workers, so they have an incentive to drive traffic there a.) for the taxes, and b.) to keep the brothel owner happy. Typically these establishments are the largest tax-generators for these small, sparsely populated counties. Everyone has a financial incentive to encourage potential customers to frequent the legal alternative. In addition, as these are small, rural counties an hour or more outside of large cities, there will only be enough customers if the place is advertised in Reno or Las Vegas. An illegal operation would have difficulty with that. Those coming by car or bus to the legal establishment would have to be flagged down somewhere along there dusty route.

My understanding is that it works pretty well.

I'm sure it works well, but I dont think it works well exclusively. Think Heidi Fleiss.

7sm

 

[arnisador]

Escorts? Well, in these rural counties, I wouldn't think so, though I don't know for sure...but they'd want to work in the high population areas of Reno and Vegas, no? I think some of these counties have populations of around 3500 and are an hour away from the city...as long as an escort business that engages in prostitution is illegal everywhere, wouldn't it make sense to set up such an operation where the clients are? I certainly agree that the system cannot be foolproof, but I think economics are on its side, in these isolated areas. It wouldn't work as well in Vegas. I don't know how well the Dutch system, say, works.

By the way, isn't Heidi Fleiss opening a new brothel in Nevada:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10313009/site/newsweek/from/RSS/

 

[7starmantis]

Your correct, but we are talking about the complete legalization of prostitution which would include areas such as Vegas and LA and Dallas, Houston, Chicago, New York, etc.

7sm

 

[arnisador]

That would be much more of a mess. I think it's worth a try, and it seems as though some countries have managed, but even still, I don't know how optimistic I'd be about it helping.