About The Whole Minors And Sex Issue

[tradrockrat]

Kane, for the love of christ stop flapping your gums about a subject you have no practical knowledge in. This pseudo intellectual debate is pointless.

But honestly, is pedophilia really that much worse than murder?

It is equally as bad at least. It is a life sentence of pain, shame and anguish, not to mention the very real psychosis that Shesula told you about.

But don't you think that it has to do with the fact that psychologists, family members, and others in the community try to indoctrinate the child that they were abused? What if there was none of this? You know many homosexuals have gone crazy and even have killed themselves. This isn't because they are homosexuals nor does it have anything to do with the fact that they may have a gay lover at school. It has to do with whatever religious bull they have to put up with from people who can't just accept who they are.

Oh where to start.

1. many children are discovered to have been abused due to their resultant behavior. The behavior doesn't start after the crime is discovered. This is well known and simple to understand. Somehow you missed it.

2.All Homosexual suicides are due to religious intolerance???? Says who? You? Forgive me if I disagree. How about the ones who are victims of pedophilia that literally drive them into the lifestyle due to the massive trauma they've experienced and tend to reproduce and perpetuate throughout their lives through abusive homosexual relationships. Could that be an occasional reason? We see this all the time as young teens begin to try to experiment with sexual activities among peers after being victims of same sex pedophilia - which IS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY! It is Pedophilia and you might just have your *** handed to ya (pun intended) if you were to imply differently around a gay man or woman. They take this issue very seriously. Statments such as this prove to me beyond a doubt that you are hoplessly mired in an idylic, intellectual debate completely removed from reality. Need more examples of this?

Why do you assume man is such a selfish evil creature that laws are needed? I guess we have a different view on the goodness of man.

DUDE! WTF? Your'e telling me that despite all historical evidence to the contrary, man never needed rules to help him live in harmony with his neighbors? We just LET Hamurabi rule us despite that it was of no benefit? It's a coincidence that one of the oldest writtings in the world is a list of rules to avoid problems? Figure it out, if everyone is free to do what they want - they will - this has happened all through out our history as a species and it is still happening now. Historical fact. no matter what it may have become, origionally rules were WHY we were able to accomplish this thing called society and rise above the rest of the animals.

If I was to start a thread on an argument for anarchism and stated that people can get along and won't kill each other, people would have gotten less pissed at me.

Less pissed? Maybe, but I'd still call you hoplessly misguided. People kill each other all the time, rules or no, and you are advocating letting these people get away with it unless we wish to "kill them back".


One more thing, the "drugs = pedophilia thing"

Drugs kill the user, right? That's your argument? Even if this were true, it still shows how delusional you are about this. Pedophilia hurts an innocent who never asked for this!!! Why can't you accept this truth?


Again I finish my one and only post ont his subject with this - go work with the victims of pedophilia for one week - you will NEVER feel the way you do now again.
And I add - If we did live in a true anarchy I would dedicate my life to whacking pedophiles for a living and I would sleep well.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

And I add - If we did live in a true anarchy I would dedicate my life to whacking pedophiles for a living and I would sleep well.

Ditto. Pity we don't. My blade would make slow work of these scum, for a slow painful death is what they deserve.

 

[Kane]

Now take your sandbucket to another thread and start one on religious dogma, or make a scientific argument for the raping of minors or shut up.

You're getting to emotional in this post.

Secondly I wasn't talking anything about raping minors as you put it. If you think I have never been in contact with people who have been molested think again. Someone who was very close to me was molested by a priest, and I rather not go too much into it because I promised her that I wouldn't tell anyone. I was very young when it happened, probably a baby. She didn't have any of the emotional support you may have had. She views it as abuse, and I agree with her. But don't start to get all emotional with me as if I don't know what I'm talking about.

In some ways I have been molested too. I was 14.........but I cherished it. Heck I know many rational people that have had sex this young too. No emotional scars. Maybe we went insane by it and that may be the reason I started this whole topic on MT in the first place. Well if I'm insane I guess Canada is as well considering the fact that their age of consent is 13 or 14. I wonder how many less abuse cases they have up there. I don't think it has to do with that they are nothing but "dirty socialist America-wanna be". There are many things we can learn from them in fact.

America is a great country and I would never leave it. But it has its flaws and I'm sure one day it will overcome it.

My view on Man, is that Man is a cancer, and it's extinction would be a welcome relief for this poor planet which is raped daily by it. Where are Cylons when one wants them?

Unless you are joking, that really means a lot! I believe man is a blessing and can overcome the evil it may have within. Then I guess I'm not the only tumor in this world. If you think man is a tumor then your a tumor too, correct? Might as well be for murder over pedophilia then? I mean tumors and cancers shouldn't exist . If you think man the cancer would destroy each other if there was no government, then why not have no government? It would probably be quicker than Cylons eh?

 

[shesulsa]

I would say that you wanted to stir up emotions on this thread.

I would also say that just because YOU enjoyed your experiences at 14 doesn't mean everyone else does.

Now ... what was that scientific argument you were going to make for legalizing underage sex again? Where's that evidence again?

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Kane, you are a sick individual. Why don't you take your "opinion" to a NAMBLA site where it will be applauded. Your fixation on legalizing child-sex is that of a sick individual. It disgusts me.

I'm done here. Those that seek to justify or legalize child-sex in my opinion should be put to the sword, their filth surgically removed from the human race, one scum bag at a time.

 

[Kane]

Kane, for the love of christ stop flapping your gums about a subject you have no practical knowledge in. This pseudo intellectual debate is pointless.

It is equally as bad at least. It is a life sentence of pain, shame and anguish, not to mention the very real psychosis that Shesula told you about.

Heh heh, I know you spit this out before you even gave me a chance to explain. I know more about pedophilia than you can imagine (and considering that fact that many Americans think a 14 year old having sex with an adult is pedophilia, then I guess that makes me a victim of pedophilia).

Oh where to start.

1. many children are discovered to have been abused due to their resultant behavior. The behavior doesn't start after the crime is discovered. This is well known and simple to understand. Somehow you missed it.

2.All Homosexual suicides are due to religious intolerance???? Says who? You? Forgive me if I disagree. How about the ones who are victims of pedophilia that literally drive them into the lifestyle due to the massive trauma they've experienced and tend to reproduce and perpetuate throughout their lives through abusive homosexual relationships. Could that be an occasional reason? We see this all the time as young teens begin to try to experiment with sexual activities among peers after being victims of same sex pedophilia - which IS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY! It is Pedophilia and you might just have your *** handed to ya (pun intended) if you were to imply differently around a gay man or woman. They take this issue very seriously. Statments such as this prove to me beyond a doubt that you are hoplessly mired in an idylic, intellectual debate completely removed from reality. Need more examples of this?

You are very pompous to suggest what you suggest. Maybe the fact that I have had sex when I was a teen and enjoyed is proof that not all people get emotionally down from it. Maybe that is why Canada as well as many European nations keep lowering the age, eh?

And I didn't say that all homosexuals are victims of abuse. You are trying to nitpick in order to prove something. It doesn't work.

DUDE! WTF? Your'e telling me that despite all historical evidence to the contrary, man never needed rules to help him live in harmony with his neighbors? We just LET Hamurabi rule us despite that it was of no benefit? It's a coincidence that one of the oldest writtings in the world is a list of rules to avoid problems? Figure it out, if everyone is free to do what they want - they will - this has happened all through out our history as a species and it is still happening now. Historical fact. no matter what it may have become, origionally rules were WHY we were able to accomplish this thing called society and rise above the rest of the animals.

Except government itself has killed more people in the name of the "common good" than no government. Honestly do you really know what you are talking about. Statism rose more than ever the 20th century and look what it did;

Nazi Germany

Stalinst Russia

Kim Jong' Korea

Pol Pot's Caombodia

Imperial Japan

I CAN GO ON AND ON! Tell me who has more evidence?

Less pissed? Maybe, but I'd still call you hoplessly misguided. People kill each other all the time, rules or no, and you are advocating letting these people get away with it unless we wish to "kill them back".


One more thing, the "drugs = pedophilia thing"

Drugs kill the user, right? That's your argument? Even if this were true, it still shows how delusional you are about this. Pedophilia hurts an innocent who never asked for this!!! Why can't you accept this truth?


Again I finish my one and only post ont his subject with this - go work with the victims of pedophilia for one week - you will NEVER feel the way you do now again.
And I add - If we did live in a true anarchy I would dedicate my life to whacking pedophiles for a living and I would sleep well.

If you read my post carefully I clearly stated I was against drug prohibition. Man you are so in the wrong here. The fact I may have been closer to pedophilia to you also says a lot.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Ok, so you're admitting you are a pedophile?

 

[shesulsa]

Someone who was very close to me was molested by a priest, and I rather not go too much into it because I promised her that I wouldn't tell anyone.

Someone who was very close to you?

I was very young when it happened, probably a baby.

So you found out about this when?

She didn't have any of the emotional support you may have had.

Emotional support. Hm. Is that what it is when people roll their eyes and say, "suuuure..." is supposed to be? Also, "Well, you must put your faith in God that Jesus will save you from this and we can't always know the Lord's intent" and "Did you know that most sexual abusers were abused themselves?" .... Great emotional support.

But don't start to get all emotional with me as if I don't know what I'm talking about.

Kane, you DON'T know what you're talking about. And if you don't want people to get emotional about a very emotional topic ... then ... *don't bring it up.*

In some ways I have been molested too. I was 14.........but I cherished it. Heck I know many rational people that have had sex this young too. No emotional scars. Maybe we went insane by it and that may be the reason I started this whole topic on MT in the first place. Well if I'm insane I guess Canada is as well considering the fact that their age of consent is 13 or 14. I wonder how many less abuse cases they have up there. I don't think it has to do with that they are nothing but "dirty socialist America-wanna be". There are many things we can learn from them in fact.

This whole statement demonstrates that you have no clue of the ramifications of all that you are spouting. You are assuming that all consentual sex is healthy sex and that is not necessarily the case. You are assuming that at your young age and inexperienced station in life that you know all there is to have to know about this. Try this on for size: the fact that you cannot absorb the full spectrum of experiences people have at all ages in life on the sexual scale and their feelings about all these things indicates that you HAVE been affected by your too-young experience. You are accepting of acts which may or may not be healthy or appropriate for all persons 14. Because you enjoyed your experience, you think everyone else who is not a victim of religious and psychological brainwashing should enjoy it too.

 

[Kane]

I would say that you wanted to stir up emotions on this thread.

I would also say that just because YOU enjoyed your experiences at 14 doesn't mean everyone else does.

Now ... what was that scientific argument you were going to make for legalizing underage sex again? Where's that evidence again?

Bingo! I enjoyed my experiance with sex when I was 14. You didn't. Just like some people don't enjoy doing something, other people don't enjoy something. So you want to ban it because you had a bad experiance. Do you even take in mind of people who had a good experiance with it? You are sounding very anti-liberty right now if you didn't notice. Some people have bad experiance with drugs. Does that mean all people will have a bad experiance with it? So ban it because some people don't like it. Sounds very statist to me.

Didn't you claim earlier that pedophilia is scientifically proven as damaging as murder? Well I can tell you that myself and many teens when I was a teen cherished the moment more than anything. I guess science has ignored that? Or maybe you ignored that?

 

[shesulsa]

Bingo! I enjoyed my experiance with sex when I was 14. You didn't. Just like some people don't enjoy doing something, other people don't enjoy something. So you want to ban it because you had a bad experiance. Do you even take in mind of people who had a good experiance with it? You are sounding very anti-liberty right now if you didn't notice. Some people have bad experiance with drugs. Does that mean all people will have a bad experiance with it? So ban it because some people don't like it. Sounds very statist to me.

You are trying to use the argument of the case for liberty in America as a crutch. Again ... where is that scientific evidence you can point to for support in your argument?

Didn't you claim earlier that pedophilia is scientifically proven as damaging as murder?

No, kiddo. How can murder be psychologically damaging? Think about it.

Well I can tell you that myself and many teens when I was a teen cherished the moment more than anything. I guess science has ignored that? Or maybe you ignored that?

Yah - why don't you go find out what else science has to say about sex at that age?

I'm as much for liberty as the next gal. So ... support your argument. C'mon, man, link me ... show me the scientific arguments that early sex isn't damaging to some degree.

How old are you, anyway? 14?

 

[Kane]

I'm only 21 and am still in college. I don't claim to know everything. All I know, from my own experiance and my reading that sex, at least as a teen, isn't as bad as many of you think. And 14 your inexperianced but unless you were raped or caught an STD (and if you're a guy), abuse isn't likelly. That is why age of consent laws are getting lower in other countries.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Ask the thousands in Asia who are sold into prostitution as young as 8 by their families. Wait, you can't because many are killed as soon as they are 'used up' by sick "child sex fans" who travel there for the "fun" of doing a doped up child.

Ask the altar boy who was duped into activity by that well respected community leader. Oh wait, he's too embarased to talk, and afraid if he does that he will be harmed.

Ask the newborn who was ripped open by her moms live in pig. Oh wait, she's not even old enough to crawl yet, much less talk.

But, lets roll back all those laws. Lets let 8 yr olds run combines and plant explosives again while were at it. So what if they get maimed, right?


Why are you still here? At what point, do you and your sickness get voted off this island, swept back into the gutter with the trash?

 

[Jonathan Randall]

=============
Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Jonathan Randall
-MT Moderator-

 

[Kane]

Ask the thousands in Asia who are sold into prostitution as young as 8 by their families. Wait, you can't because many are killed as soon as they are 'used up' by sick "child sex fans" who travel there for the "fun" of doing a doped up child.

Ask the altar boy who was duped into activity by that well respected community leader. Oh wait, he's too embarased to talk, and afraid if he does that he will be harmed.

Ask the newborn who was ripped open by her moms live in pig. Oh wait, she's not even old enough to crawl yet, much less talk.

But, lets roll back all those laws. Lets let 8 yr olds run combines and plant explosives again while were at it. So what if they get maimed, right?


Why are you still here? At what point, do you and your sickness get voted off this island, swept back into the gutter with the trash?

Other than the fact you are very bigoted to the extreme end, no where in my post did I advocate forced prostitution to ANYONE, NO MATTER WHAT THE AGE? And the fact that you equate to trash really says a lot about you when I'm trying to have a rational discussion on such a sensitive topic.

And if you notice, I nearly ever, if at all talk about pre-puburty sex. i'm not surprised you missed that.

 

[shesulsa]

I'm only 21 and am still in college. I don't claim to know everything. All I know, from my own experiance and my reading that sex, at least as a teen, isn't as bad as many of you think. And 14 your inexperianced but unless you were raped or caught an STD (and if you're a guy), abuse isn't likelly. That is why age of consent laws are getting lower in other countries.

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH I understand you now.

You're a young college student and you think you're arguing for something you're loving getting a lot more now than you ever did.

Wow. I am TRULY disappointed.

See, *I* thought that you were going to try to make a well-supported argument about the case for liberty in consentual sexual relations in late-aged minors.

*I* thought you were going to argue the case for liberty in comparison to other freedoms and how our liberties are degrading under the current regime and how it might be further affected by the possible future events in this country and with our current foreign policy issues.

*I* thought you would at least take responsibility for these sweeping statements of yours and make appropriate allowances for certain situations and certain people.

But, alas, you haven't. And now even *I* am questioning why you are still here.

Look, I'm happy for you that you you're happy about your early ... err ... 'accomplishment.' And for your sake, I hope this feeling remains sincere and pray it's genuine (of course, you'll figure that out later, more than likely). I also pray for your continued ignorance because clearly, it is bliss.

Goodbye.

 

[Kane]

You are trying to use the argument of the case for liberty in America as a crutch. Again ... where is that scientific evidence you can point to for support in your argument?

I' sure you would dismiss whatever I say as pseudoscience. But perhaps you should send your scientific evidence to Canada and other Western countries that are trying to find the truth.

The truth is actually very similar to what you have even said. Some teens enjoy sex, some don't. Same applies to almost everything else that can be debated. There is evidence both ways. I am an example on where it "pedophilia" turned out be something I learned to live and even cherish when I was so called "molested" when I was 14. While in your experiance it was something completly different. I apologize that your experiance was as bad as it was, it doesn't mean the rest of society has to suffer. And many countries in the West are starting to figure this out.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Other than the fact you are very bigoted to the extreme end, no where in my post did I advocate forced prostitution to ANYONE, NO MATTER WHAT THE AGE? And the fact that you equate to trash really says a lot about you when I'm trying to have a rational discussion on such a sensitive topic.

And if you notice, I nearly ever, if at all talk about pre-puburty sex. i'm not surprised you missed that.

You are arguing for a removal of age restrictions.
If age restrictions are removed, what will stop someone from taking advantage of those preteens or younger?

I admit, I am a bigot. I hate everyone equally.
I just hate certain people more equally than others.

People who advocate legalizing sex with minors for one.
It's a personal subject, the details none of your business.
But those who take sexual advantage of others deserve to taste cold steel.
I don't care that you enjoyed it, or have convinced yourself that you enjoyed it, or whatever.
I care that others lack the ability to decide for themselves and are forced, enticed, etc into an act that they are not yet mentally ready for, and you, like so many scumbags that I have listened to before, are suggesting removing the limited legal protections and liability that do exist, simply so some horny 21 yr old can shag some clueless teener.

Sorry, doesn't work for me pal.

So. Cite some scientific studies from Europe. Dig up some verifiable statistics from a reputable scientific journal. Bring up some solid facts. Because if you can't, you are just one more adult seeking an excuse to justify a desire for young flesh.

So, I will shut up for a bit here. You dig up the facts to back your position.
Because if you can't, you're just another sexual predator, seeking justification for your sick appetites in my book.

 

[shesulsa]

Many countries in the west can't support the legal system bringing them cases of statutory rape, so they make it easier on the kids and harder on the parents. It's a cost issue, not some grand enlightenment.

I have previously made the statement that many people, after at least a decade more of living than you've done, look back on those early experiences and find how very little they were ready for sex, even at 18, 19, 20.

Part of adulthood involves the ability to separate the lust for fulfulled fantasy and the results of shaping experiences.

 

[Kane]

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH I understand you now.

You're a young college student and you think you're arguing for something you're loving getting a lot more now than you ever did.

Wow. I am TRULY disappointed.

See, *I* thought that you were going to try to make a well-supported argument about the case for liberty in consentual sexual relations in late-aged minors.

*I* thought you were going to argue the case for liberty in comparison to other freedoms and how our liberties are degrading under the current regime and how it might be further affected by the possible future events in this country and with our current foreign policy issues.

*I* thought you would at least take responsibility for these sweeping statements of yours and make appropriate allowances for certain situations and certain people.

But, alas, you haven't. And now even *I* am questioning why you are still here.

Look, I'm happy for you that you you're happy about your early ... err ... 'accomplishment.' And for your sake, I hope this feeling remains sincere and pray it's genuine (of course, you'll figure that out later, more than likely). I also pray for your continued ignorance because clearly, it is bliss.

Goodbye.

No it has nothing to do it that. I think you are merely trying to explain this to get out of a debate you clearly lost.

This has nothing to do with getting with teenage chicks. I prefer people my own age thank you. And no, I still think killing a minor is far far worse than having sex with them.

It's okay. As close friend once told me, this country isn't ready for rational discussion in this area. As time goes this "evil" sacred cow disappear.

So in a sense the hatred that folks like Edmund BlackAdder will die in the future along with silly sex taboos (which is what they are, silly).

Good day!

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Kane,
The Romans and Greeks tried it your way.

Interesting what happened to them.

So. Post your scientific information from these enlightened Western nations. I'll look for it in the morning.

Personally, I hope that the attitude of those who would victimize children will die out, and that those sick bastards who support child sex will suffer great anguish and suffering while dying a long, drawn out and painful death on their way to extinction. Oh, and that I get to watch. I'll bring popcorn.