About The Whole Minors And Sex Issue

[shesulsa]

It's okay. As close friend once told me, this country isn't ready for rational discussion in this area. As time goes this "evil" sacred cow disappear.

Wow. just .... wow ....

So ... you haven't really had a rational discussion because you have only presented one view and cite no studies supporting your view using the excuse that we would dismiss it as "pseudoscience" which is a piss-poor excuse for not having the evidence to support your stance.

You sound like a typical college student in love with an idea.

See ya.

 

[shesulsa]

Tell ya what, Kane.

Print this conversation out and put it in an envelope and seal it. Put it in a memory box and open it in the future on your child's 21st birthday and re-read it. I wonder how much your view will change.

I am done until you come back to the table with some linked information to support your ideas.

 

[Kane]

People who advocate legalizing sex with minors for one.
It's a personal subject, the details none of your business.
But those who take sexual advantage of others deserve to taste cold steel.
I don't care that you enjoyed it, or have convinced yourself that you enjoyed it, or whatever.
I care that others lack the ability to decide for themselves and are forced, enticed, etc into an act that they are not yet mentally ready for, and you, like so many scumbags that I have listened to before, are suggesting removing the limited legal protections and liability that do exist, simply so some horny 21 yr old can shag some clueless teener.

There are many things in life people that people aren't mentally ready to handle. Some people sprout early while others sprout much later. The government can't just protect those some people that can't mentally handle something at cost to to those who can. Understand what I'm saying? This has nothing to with me being a "horny 21 year old". As I said, I'm far far more attracted to people my age.

 

[Kane]

So. Cite some scientific studies from Europe. Dig up some verifiable statistics from a reputable scientific journal. Bring up some solid facts. Because if you can't, you are just one more adult seeking an excuse to justify a desire for young flesh.

On what? About people you have enjoyed having sex about it and have never regreted it. Well you can find many such people on the street and elsewhere but if you want to examine something from a scientific journal then look no further than Frits Bernard, one of the biggest pedosexual activists as well as an activist for gays, lesbians, and other sexual minorities. A quote he said is very relevent to this discussion;

[SIZE=+2]"Human beings have the tendency not to make judgments based on facts, especially in sexual matters, but rather on simplified abstractions of reality. New facts, including scientific research, are generally not accepted or respected. This had long been the case with homosexuality. Misguided notions thrived, and there was active resistance to any revision of opinion."

The [/SIZE]scientific journals I have aren't in computer form, so do the research yourself at google. I have steered you in the direction and I will look for others.

 

[Kane]

Look at some of the works of Theo Sandfort and Frans Gieles as well.http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frans_Gieles&action=edit

 

[Don Roley]

First off, being against government legislation doesn't mean you are for something nor does it make you something.

Ok, now you pissed me off.

I am one of the folks that loudly say that no one else has the right to tell me what to do or not if what I do has no impact on anyone else. As such, I tend to be classed as a conservative while I consider myself a radical for freedom.

But I am an adult. I have the experience to make choices based on knowledge and decades of experience. So I can make the choice to be seduced.

Chidren can't make that choice. I am not saying that they may not make that choice. I am saying that they are unable to make a reasoned choice at their age. Would you give a pistol to a six year old? Sounds silly. But the consequences for doing the nasty are sometimes far more hard hitting over the decades after the fact.

If I want to have kinky sex with someone else, then as long as what we do has no impact on anyone else then they have no say in what we do. But that is dependent on both parties being able to make a reasoned choice about the matter. Children can't make that choice anymore than they can make choices about a whole lot of other things. They do not have the reasoning power or experience.

So your comparisons to homosexuality are rather repugnant. Two adult males can make the choice to have sex because they have the abiltiy to make that choice. Children do not. That is as simple as it gets. Unless you want to say that children are responbsible enough to own pistols and/or adult homosexuals are not, your arguments have no merit.

And as a parent as well as someone that works with children as a teacher I am not going to let this thread go by without frequently adding my opinion. Just so you know- I am not going to go away and have no problem in letting you know just how low a human being I think you are.

 

[Makalakumu]

If you take any philosophy to its practical extreme, it begins to fall apart. This is why there are ALWAYS exceptions. No one way of thinking can encompass all that we know.

I think you need to moderate this position, Kane. It makes absolutely no practical sense.

 

[Kacey]

Kane, you say you are a 21 year-old college student. You say that 1/3 of your lifetime ago, you had a "Mrs. Robinson" type of experience, where you were seduced into a sexual relationship with an adult (at least, that's what it sounds like from what you've said). And yes, women commit a significant number of child molestations. You were chosen and groomed for this purpose. Regardless of what spin you put on it, you were abused by a person older than yourself, who broke the law to do it, and counted on you not to report her actions. Your views on this topic have been skewed by your experience, and you are at an increased risk of becoming a pedophile yourself, or experiencing other psychological problems because of your experiences.

Random quotes with names, but without links or citations, are not going to convince anyone that your position is right. Nor is your somewhat disconnected statement that you had sex at 14 and weren't damaged by it. Many teens are sexually active in the mid and even early teens - when it occurs with other teens, it is experimentation. When it occurs with adults, it is, at the very least, exploitation. Teens - especially younger teens - are often flattered to by courted by older adults, and will often do things they would not do without that flattery. Despite your claim that having sex as an early to mid-teen age is not damaging, more than half the teens in the US avoid doing so.

You have fallen into a trap common for people your age - you decided your position and then went searching for facts to validate it; in your case, you are trying to validate something that was done to you. When the victim of a crime begins to identify with criminal, it is called the Stockholm Syndrome; this was originally used to describe kidnappees who began to identify with their kidnappers, but was later expanded to include victims of many types of crimes, victims of pedophilia being a prime example. Your behavior is a in keeping with this syndrome. Read some of the articles I have linked here - if you dare - and then reread this entire thread.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Kacey. I think you may be onto something. Good post.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Minarchist

OK, all due respect for the moderators before I start, but I have had enough of this. I will do my best to keep it short and respectful as possible.

First why bring anarchism into it when what you really want to discuss is pedophilia? Which by the way I find your obsession with this topic disturbing

By the definition you provided many people can be considered predators. Why aren't people who physically beat the living hell out of their kids called predators? Why is sex criminalized more than violence in our country? Before we criminalize pedosexuality we need to criminalize pedoviolence. Maybe that is why the laws aren't so severe in other Western nations and unions like Canada and the EU.

Um, I do not know where you live, but violence against minors in my state generally brings a felony charge. So your argument here is well.... baseless and yet another weak attempt to justify pedophilia.

You know though, in the 19th century it was considered predatory for a non-white male to have sex with a white woman. Often times these white women were looked as victims and the non-white men as predators. What do you have to say about that? Homosexuality has been classified as a mental disease for most of our history until very recently.

So now you are trying to justify pedophilia based on racism. Once again nope, baseless. The 1 does not justify the other.

Heroin addiction, anarchists, pedophilia being entirely different things has nothing to do with my point. Re-read my post carefully.

Nope, once again does not fly, YOU brought them in together in the SAME post therefore I am sorry to tell you this but they do have a lot to do with your original post

What do you mean by "I do not want to get into this again, but if I have to I will?" Are you going to lay the smack down on me for having a different opinion? I don't mean any offence, I just want you to know that I intend this topic to not become heated. If we can engage in a rational discussion no lock-ups would be needed .

Nice try, but once again weak argument, you are now trying to claim I am stifling you opinion based on a difference. And no I am not going to lay a smack down on you for a difference of opinion. But if you are trying to justify pedophilia this is not a discussion about which is better MMA of TMA or whether or not the Government has too much authority over us or if our freedoms are being taken away this is a discussion where you are trying to JUSTIFY PEDOPHILIA.

You're getting to emotional in this post.

Gee there’s a surprise. A 21-year-old college guy that has no kids and had sex young is trying to tell ADULTS with KIDS that pedophilia is a good thing. What did you expect a cake a presents. HAVE YOU TAKEN CIVICS....or study HUMAN BEHAVIOR.... or possibly MOTVATION or any thing to do with children, parents and EMOTIONS... or possibly a CLASS on how VICTEMS feel and the emotional SCARS they have from things like PEDOPHILIA... HAVE YOU EVCER SEEN THE VICTEMS OF IT.... HAVE YOU EVER DELT WITH IT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM IN YOU INTIRE LIFE...????

So you had a good time when you were young, big deal. You are incredibly selfish and not capable of taking into account the emotions attached to this. For crying out loud man you 21 years old, I was 21 once. Greater than 21 year ago and I can tell you at 21 you have not got a clue.

Now I am actually willing to give you a break on the fact you are a 21-year-old college guy with very little life experience. And I can tell you out in the real world the discussion you and your buddies have on campus that you think should be dealt with and you justify to each other for the most part just do not fly once reality hits you in the face.... and believe me if you continue this discussion outside of college in any place of employment it will.

I'm only 21 and am still in college. I don't claim to know everything.

That is for sure, you do not know everything beyond, as Mark Twain put it. Book learnin’

I don't believe this to be the function of government (I look at this as the function of parents

OK I got a true story for you from South America where the parents did take responsibility for it and I have no problem with it. I would be interested to know how a 21-year-old Minarchist that is trying to justify pedophilia feels about it

I use to work with a guy that was from South America and he told me a story from when he was about 10 years old. He grew up in a little village and just outside of the village, near the jungle lived 1 guy. All he was ever told was not to ever go there. This guy came into the village every now and then to buy stuff. One day a child was missing and it was discovered that this guy had taken the child to his house and had sex with the child. (This child was around 10) All the guy I work with remembers was that his parents took him into the house, his father picked up his machete and meant the other men of the village and left town in the direction of the house outside of town. After that the guy I worked with went to bed woke up the next morning, his father was there the machete was there and the house outside of town was gone (burned down) and the guy was never seen again. Later in life the guy I worked with pretty much figured out what had happened but all that anyone that went off with a machete that night would say when he asked about it was “They had no idea what he was talking about” or “ they were to old to remember such things”

Now I have no problem with dealing with a pedophile this way, what’s the Minarchist view on this?

And just as a side note you state,” you are more of a minarchist”, this means you are in favor of SOME government intervention. So why are you against government intervention in the case of Pedophilia?

Minarchism
In civics, minarchism, sometimes called minimal statism or small government, is the view that the size, role and influence of government in a free society should be minimal - only large enough to protect the liberty of each and every individual, without violating the liberty of any individuals itself, thus maximizing individual liberty.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Kane cannot defend his position. Instead, all he has is dramatics, hence the PM he sent me:

I will send you my address and if you feel so strongly on the issue I will let you kill me. Seriously, I won't even fight back. I'll die for liberty any day. It doesn't matter what it is. The only question is do you have the balls to pull the trigger if you where to find me? Better kill an evil pedophile activist now before my activism leads to the violation of the evil sacred cow .

This in my opinion shows the depths of his sickness. He is either really so disturbed that he sees this a a fight for freedom, or else he is simply here to troll and cause a major disturbance on a sensitive subject. Either way, this is pretty sick, IMHO.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Yikes!

 

[tshadowchaser]

Folks this thread has run its course and has gone way over the line
I am closeing it for review

sheldon bedell
mt mod