Shotokan for self defence.

[Tez3]

Can I make one thing clear here, the UFC is a company which is in the business of making money by putting on fight nights, selling tickets to them, selling associated products including a television series.
UFC is not MMA. To keep saying that the 'UFC' guys can/can't hit is expressing an opinion only on the fighters in one particular promotion, there are many other fight promotions. You cannot judge them all by what you see the fighters in one show do.
They don't fight with 'UFC' gloves, they are MMA gloves for goodness sake. MMA fighters all over the world use them, often with name of their gym or the fight night on them. Do you call all motor cars 'Fords', of course not.
Stop judging MMA by what you see in the UFC, it may be a big show but it's not all that MMA is. What you see is specific to the UFC, the rest of the very big world doesn't do it the same way. UFC was designed for a non martial arts American audience to 'appreciate' the skill of the Gracies. It has been taken further and become a major entertainment .
To keep going on about UFC fighters, UFC gloves etc is to show a lack of understanding of MMA and points to being a UFC fanboy.

 

[drop bear]

Can I make one thing clear here, the UFC is a company which is in the business of making money by putting on fight nights, selling tickets to them, selling associated products including a television series.
UFC is not MMA. To keep saying that the 'UFC' guys can/can't hit is expressing an opinion only on the fighters in one particular promotion, there are many other fight promotions. You cannot judge them all by what you see the fighters in one show do.
They don't fight with 'UFC' gloves, they are MMA gloves for goodness sake. MMA fighters all over the world use them, often with name of their gym or the fight night on them. Do you call all motor cars 'Fords', of course not.
Stop judging MMA by what you see in the UFC, it may be a big show but it's not all that MMA is. What you see is specific to the UFC, the rest of the very big world doesn't do it the same way. UFC was designed for a non martial arts American audience to 'appreciate' the skill of the Gracies. It has been taken further and become a major entertainment .
To keep going on about UFC fighters, UFC gloves etc is to show a lack of understanding of MMA and points to being a UFC fanboy.

Being a karate thread we should probably be looking at kudo anyway. Which is more of the domain of karate fighters.

And the gloves are even smaller. Basically a wrap.

I wonder if we will see low hands wild swings and missing the target.

 

[drop bear]

These are karate guys and judo guys,sort of, and they are not exactly tight and technical in the sense that some people want them to be.

 

[drop bear]

Shotokan vs judo in a Shotokan match.

I don't really have a point to make here. Just found it on my travels and thought it was interesting.

 

[Zero]

These are karate guys and judo guys,sort of, and they are not exactly tight and technical in the sense that some people want them to be.

You mean kudo, not judo?

That said, who on this site has competed in our had experience with Kudo?

I would be very interested to hear of any experience either in training at the clubs or tournaments. The rule book on the kudo website was not available so I am trying to find out what the rules are as to being able to submit/sweep/takedown in the strike tournaments, can anyone advise?

I like how they can punch full contact to the head as well as kick, unlike in kyokoshin. I did judo before switching to goju ryu so looks like a good sport for that kind of base...

I would like to enter one of these tournaments, if I am a dan in goju ryu, does that mean I can come over as a bb for tournaments in Kudo? It would suck if I you had to start lower for tournaments, as it looks like the lower the grade the less techniques open to use in competition.

Does anyone know if this is done in UK?

 

[Zero]

Drop bear, thanks for posting those kudo vids, I must admit I have been in the dark to this and am not sure how...

Also a link of a brief discussion on kudo by Iain Abernathy:
The future format of competitive karate some thoughts and videos Iain Abernethy

 

[drop bear]

You mean kudo, not judo?

That said, who on this site has competed in our had experience with Kudo?

I would be very interested to hear of any experience either in training at the clubs or tournaments. The rule book on the kudo website was not available so I am trying to find out what the rules are as to being able to submit/sweep/takedown in the strike tournaments, can anyone advise?

I like how they can punch full contact to the head as well as kick, unlike in kyokoshin. I did judo before switching to goju ryu so looks like a good sport for that kind of base...

I would like to enter one of these tournaments, if I am a dan in goju ryu, does that mean I can come over as a bb for tournaments in Kudo? It would suck if I you had to start lower for tournaments, as it looks like the lower the grade the less techniques open to use in competition.

Does anyone know if this is done in UK?

My coach competed in it. I have sparred using most of the rules I remember.

It does get a bit complicated. Full contact mma point sparring.

 

[Steve]

Can I make one thing clear here, the UFC is a company which is in the business of making money by putting on fight nights, selling tickets to them, selling associated products including a television series.
UFC is not MMA. To keep saying that the 'UFC' guys can/can't hit is expressing an opinion only on the fighters in one particular promotion, there are many other fight promotions. You cannot judge them all by what you see the fighters in one show do.
They don't fight with 'UFC' gloves, they are MMA gloves for goodness sake. MMA fighters all over the world use them, often with name of their gym or the fight night on them. Do you call all motor cars 'Fords', of course not.
Stop judging MMA by what you see in the UFC, it may be a big show but it's not all that MMA is. What you see is specific to the UFC, the rest of the very big world doesn't do it the same way. UFC was designed for a non martial arts American audience to 'appreciate' the skill of the Gracies. It has been taken further and become a major entertainment .
To keep going on about UFC fighters, UFC gloves etc is to show a lack of understanding of MMA and points to being a UFC fanboy.

You make a very good point. I don't think anything is intended by the use of the term UFC. But, many use the term UFC as a generic term for MMA. You're absolutely correct that we don't call all cars 'Fords.' But, at least in America, and often at the chagrin of the trademark holder, we will use a brand name to refer to a generic product. We call all adhesive gauze strips "Band Aids" even when they're actually Curads. We make copies of documents on Xerox machines, regardless of their brand. And there are still parts of the country where Sodas or Soda Pops are all called "Cokes."

Point is, it's not unheard of, and I don't think anyone means anything by it. I don't think using the term in a generic sense necessarily indicates that the poster is judging all MMA by the UFC standard. Using the term doesn't make the poster a "fanboy" and I think it's pretty clear in context when it's used whether it's referring to MMA in general or the UFC promotion in particular.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Which raises the percentage for success of that heavy swing and short combinations. Also increases the need to move rather than cover.

Making the fight look more brawly.

It doesn't because those fighters, unlike trained boxers, can't knockout with one punch wearing those gloves. At least not the majority. They need 100-200 punches of flurry to accomplish what a boxer only needs one hit for, with those gloves. That's how inferior they are.

 

[Tez3]

It doesn't because those fighters, unlike trained boxers, can't knockout with one punch wearing those gloves. At least not the majority. They need 100-200 punches of flurry to accomplish what a boxer only needs one hit for, with those gloves. That's how inferior they are.

Really? How you do work that out, I have watched by now thousands of fights live and I can tell you that I have seen a good many of what you call 'one punch' KOs. I think you lack the experience to be able to judge what can and can't be done either in boxing, MMA, karate or TKD.

 

[Flying Crane]

It doesn't because those fighters, unlike trained boxers, can't knockout with one punch wearing those gloves. At least not the majority. They need 100-200 punches of flurry to accomplish what a boxer only needs one hit for, with those gloves. That's how inferior they are.

This is all a very faulty way of looking at it.

Under pressure, any strike or punch will deteriorate and not be optimal. That's what happens when someone is trying to land a strike while simultaneously avoid being hit himself, or just the effects of nerves and adrenaline from being in danger. However, a less than perfect punch, or sloppy technique can still knock someone on his ***, all by itself, without a flurry of 200 additional or cumulative strikes. My god, if you need a flurry like that, or you need that many cumulative strikes to take the bad guy down, then what you really need is better instruction and better training. But Likewise, a perfect technique can fail to land decisively and be ineffectual.

So practice to the highest quality that you can, because under pressure it will break down.

Also, when reasonably equally trained people agree to face off in a contest of combat, there tends to be a sense of caution exhibited by both parties, as well as some ability to block, evade, and counter their opponent's attacks. This is because both parties know the attacks are coming and are hyper-alert. So, even the "best" quality strikes might have a difficult time landing decisively.

Honestly, I'm appalled that I need to point these things out to people. Look at the whole damn picture and stop selectively cherry-picking facts to support your favorite side of the argument.

Striking works well. Except for when it doesn't. People need to be honest with themselves.

 

[Tez3]

MMA fighters need hundreds of punches....well no. I can't tell you the amount of times I've seen this..... it's not at all rare.

 

[Laplace_demon]

This is all a very faulty way of looking at it.

Under pressure, any strike or punch will deteriorate and not be optimal. That's what happens when someone is trying to land a strike while simultaneously avoid being hit himself, or just the effects of nerves and adrenaline from being in danger. However, a less than perfect punch, or sloppy technique can still knock someone on his ***, all by itself, without a flurry of 200 additional or cumulative strikes. My god, if you need a flurry like that, or you need that many cumulative strikes to take the bad guy down, then what you really need is better instruction and better training. But Likewise, a perfect technique can fail to land decisively and be ineffectual.

So practice to the highest quality that you can, because under pressure it will break down.

Also, when reasonably equally trained people agree to face off in a contest of combat, there tends to be a sense of caution exhibited by both parties, as well as some ability to block, evade, and counter their opponent's attacks. This is because both parties know the attacks are coming and are hyper-alert. So, even the "best" quality strikes might have a difficult time landing decisively.

Honestly, I'm appalled that I need to point these things out to people. Look at the whole damn picture and stop selectively cherry-picking facts to support your favorite side of the argument.

Striking works well. Except for when it doesn't. People need to be honest with themselves.

Are seriously proposing that a strike which puts someone on his *** is as effective as a knockout?

 

[Flying Crane]

Are seriously proposing that a strike which puts someone on his *** is as effective as a knockout?

That was just an expression of speech. It could put him on his *** or knock him out or kill him. Seriously, do I need to explain this to you?

 

[Laplace_demon]

That was just an expression of speech. It could put him on his *** or knock him out or kill him. Seriously, do I need to explain this to you?

I have watched high level MMA fighters and they don't knock each other out within the first blow. It has happened but not nearly as often as you would have thought, given what retired boxers claim they need with those thin gloves.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have watched high level MMA fighters and they don't knock each other out within the first blow. It has happened but not nearly as often as you would have thought, given what retired boxers claim they need with those thin gloves.

Go back and re-read my post, #1171, the part about when two reasonably equally trained people agree to enter into a contest of combat.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Go back and re-read my post, #1171, the part about when two reasonably equally trained people agree to enter into a contest of combat.

They have failed in all manner of positions to not KO the other with the first strike. Nowhere does those boxers say it has to only be in a specific set of circumstances for their punch to KO.

 

[Flying Crane]

They have failed in all manner of positions to not KO the other with the first strike. Nowhere does those boxers say it has to only be in a specific set of circumstances for their punch to KO.

Jeezuz man, what is your malfunction???

 

[Tez3]

OK, UOTE="Laplace_demon, post: 1705072, member: 32979"]I have watched high level MMA fighters and they don't knock each other out within the first blow. It has happened but not nearly as often as you would have thought, given what retired boxers claim they need with those thin gloves.[/QUOTE]

What on earth are you on about? Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[drop bear]

I have watched high level MMA fighters and they don't knock each other out within the first blow. It has happened but not nearly as often as you would have thought, given what retired boxers claim they need with those thin gloves.

And so with these super fight ending skills of retired boxers they are not prevented from doing mma knocking guys out and taking some easy money. Just like everyone else who has super fight ending skills.

By the way mark hunt who is a k1 kickboxing champion comes to mind here. Who is doing precisely that. Just without the easy one punch ko,s.