Shotokan for self defence.

[Steve]

It's a well known fact that UFC guys strike very poorly. Take for example Tim Sylvia, never knocked out, and Ray Mercer, an old has been, only needed to strike him once, and Sylvia didn't just go down, he feel asleep.

But MMA guys will always try to convey that they are the toughest guys on the planet, and the number one pound for pound fighter in UFC is also the number one pound for pound fighter inte the world. A silly notion.

Tim Sylvia??


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[Laplace_demon]

Tim Sylvia??


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Ray Mercer, a dinosaur, put that guy to sleep. Something nobody had been able to do in the UFC. I am not just talking about stance. They truly punch like crap.

 

[RTKDCMB]

You are suggesting your method works better than the method that actually works.

I am not suggesting anything of the sort. Are you suggesting my method does not work?

I don't know how else to say this but I am sorry. The reality of a fight does not look like your pre conceived notion of what a fight should look like.

I don't have any preconceived notions.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I mean, over generalizing is usually a bad idea, but in this case it's also ironic.

I was not actually generalizing I was citing specific things I have seen.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Ok of the strikes that do end fights. Do they resemble the sort of striking that you think should end fights?

The solar plexus one was. The one I saw with a downward elbow to the back of the head was another.

 

[RTKDCMB]

It's a well known fact that UFC guys strike very poorly. Take for example Tim Sylvia, never knocked out, and Ray Mercer, an old has been, only needed to strike him once, and Sylvia didn't just go down, he feel asleep.

But MMA guys will always try to convey that they are the toughest guys on the planet, and the number one pound for pound fighter in UFC is also the number one pound for pound fighter inte the world. A silly notion.

Some of them are pretty tough.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Some of them are pretty tough.

But they aren't the fighter Dana White would want to make them out to be. Really, they are only the best of the ones who've actually participated. That's all we can say. I don't think the level is mindblowingly high. Their wrestling and grappling is certainly above average, but I can't say the same about the striking.

 

[Steve]

I'm not at a place where I can post links, but Jose Aldo, Frankie Edgar, Demetrius (Mighty Mouse) Johnson... just check out a highlight reel for these guys. Very technical fighters.

I can think of a lot of really great boxers, some who have pro records in boxing, as well. There are a lot of different strikers from a variety of backgrounds, all with a very firm grounding in technical striking. Whether it's Cung Le and his sanshou, Anderson Silva, Dominic Cruz, Little Nog... going back a little to Jens Pulver. A lot of very high level, technical, accurate striking.

 

[drop bear]

I am not suggesting anything of the sort. Are you suggesting my method does not work?



I don't have any preconceived notions.

Doesn't work as well. You do not strike as well as an elite level fighter. Regardless of how it looks to you.

Full contact striking with little gloves has different dynamics and so what methods are successful changes. You are not factoring in that these wild swinging punches are dangerous in the hands of someone who knows when to punch and how to move well.

 

[drop bear]

The solar plexus one was. The one I saw with a downward elbow to the back of the head was another.

And all the rest you think they are just swinging blind and hoping for the best?

Ok. Even if that was the case. It would still be the method used for winning fights as that is the method used for winning fights.

I mean it isn't. To assume that fighting systems that end in striking knock outs have poor strikers is working a pretty impressive pre conceived idea on what striking entails.

 

[Tez3]

But they aren't the fighter Dana White would want to make them out to be. Really, they are only the best of the ones who've actually participated. That's all we can say. I don't think the level is mindblowingly high. Their wrestling and grappling is certainly above average, but I can't say the same about the striking.

It's remarkably easy to sit and criticise while you are watching it on your screen but it's another matter to actually put yourself in their place and actually fight. Who are you to sit and say that their strikes aren't good enough for you? Have you ever faced an opponent in a pro rules MMA fight? Have you any idea how to fight even? No? then forget the 'we' bit.
I doubt any fighter, good bad or indifferent worries about your opinion of them. As for Dana White he's a businessman first and foremost, out to make money. Nothing wrong with that but you have to understand he looks at things differently from a martial artist.
You seem to think your opinion of fighters, boxers and martial artists is actually worth something, you sneer and scoff at people who are actually wiser, more knowledgeable and certainly more talented than yourself. it's as far from having an empty cup as you can get, you are a sprog, a newby, someone whose opinion of himself is bigger than his knowledge of martial arts.
Still, on the bright side thanks to the very patient posters ( I discounted everything you said) on here I've learnt some interesting things about TKD, I love learning new things especially about martial arts.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

There are actually "great" strikers in the UFC and MMA in general. Very technical and very sound in what they do. Steve gave a very short list but there are literally dozens and dozens of more who strike at a very high level. There are of course some that are terrible but..... fewer and fewer of those guy's are around as the athletes are simply getting better and better as the years go on.

 

[Drose427]

While you cant usually compare MMA Strikers to other competitive systems striking( I mean they simply cant put the same amount of time into striking, the MMA guys NEEDS to to time elsewhere)

And I will say that I believe brawlers are becoming more and more common in the UFC,

The list of achieved technical Strikers far exceeds the brawlers, and to say the level of technical skill in striking in the UFC isnt that high (when many, many strikers were accomplished strikers in other style competitions ranging from Boxing/Kickboxing to Karate/TKD) really doesnt make sense

 

[Laplace_demon]

While you cant usually compare MMA Strikers to other competitive systems striking( I mean they simply cant put the same amount of time into striking, the MMA guys NEEDS to to time elsewhere)

And I will say that I believe brawlers are becoming more and more common in the UFC,

The list of achieved technical Strikers far exceeds the brawlers, and to say the level of technical skill in striking in the UFC isnt that high (when many, many strikers were accomplished strikers in other style competitions ranging from Boxing/Kickboxing to Karate/TKD) really doesnt make sense

Retired Boxers assert they only need to connect once to knock UFC guys out with UFC gloves. Once. Do you know how many times UFC guys punch each other on a daily basis?

 

[Laplace_demon]

That's more than a class difference, It's a different dimension.

 

[drop bear]

Retired Boxers assert they only need to connect once to knock UFC guys out with UFC gloves. Once. Do you know how many times UFC guys punch each other on a daily basis?

Which raises the percentage for success of that heavy swing and short combinations. Also increases the need to move rather than cover.

Making the fight look more brawly.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Doesn't work as well. You do not strike as well as an elite level fighter. Regardless of how it looks to you.

You are making an unfounded assumption based on your preconceived notions and a limited perspective.

 

[RTKDCMB]

And all the rest you think they are just swinging blind and hoping for the best?.

You are misrepresenting what I am saying. I am not saying all UFC strikers and strikes are just swinging and hoping for the best .

Ok. Even if that was the case. It would still be the method used for winning fights as that is the method used for winning fights.

So you are saying that swinging wildly and hoping for the best is how to win fights.

I mean it isn't. To assume that fighting systems that end in striking knock outs have poor strikers is working a pretty impressive pre conceived idea on what striking entails.

Nor did I say that The UFC generally has poor strikers. What I sad was;

You should try looking at it in slow motion and see how sloppy some of the technique is. I often see strikes with the wrong part of the fist, wild swings, strikes to least vulnerable areas, guards down and other problems.

I was not actually generalizing I was citing specific things I have seen.

You seem to imply that MMA striking is superior to all other methods and held it up as the epitome of martial arts striking . There are plenty of high level strikers in the traditional martial arts which you simply ignore.

 

[drop bear]

You seem to imply that MMA striking is superior to all other methods and held it up as the epitome of martial arts striking . There are plenty of high level strikers in the traditional martial arts which you simply ignore.

Who under similar circumstances tend to strike in that similar over committed manner.

It is the nature of the full contact small glove and grappling style fight that creates that dynamic.

 

[drop bear]

You are making an unfounded assumption based on your preconceived notions and a limited perspective.

I am suggesting that is a pretty safe bet. And I have faced top level mma strikers and it is not that simple a prospect to counter. The difference being I cant get my head out of the way as easily so the striking to poor targets goes away and I can't take 200 punches in a round. So that dynamic disappears as well.