Shotokan for self defence.

[RTKDCMB]

Whoever discards Shotokan as being rubbish, yet promote some other Karate style of the same era, is really making a distinction without a difference. Sure, Kata differs greatly between styles, but how in the world are Kata nuances related to Self Defence? You either accept these older Karate styles or you don't. At their core, it's all Okinawan/Japanese Karate. Period!

That might make some sense if all the older Karate styles were the same, but they are not. You would have to accept or deny each style on a case by case basis otherwise you are just making sweeping generalizations.

 

[Tez3]

I have not read these 1000 posts of which you speak! And I made a general point.

Enough said.

 

[Laplace_demon]

A case by case investigation will reveal that they are all doing Karate and that the differences are not crucial to SD. Even Shotokan and Shorin Ryu overlap. Shotokan is of course derrived from it too. Really, it's all Karate.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Furthermore, Goju Ryu (Okinawan style) and Shotokan (Japanese style) fighters are indistinguishable from each other in Point Fighting Kumite. Shotokan Karatekas have been more successful in Championships overall. Some would argue that the Shotokan emphasis lends it self specifically to excelling in Kumite Point Fighting, but not in street fights.

 

[Tez3]

 

[Hanzou]

Going back to the original post from the threadmaker - Whoever discards Shotokan as being rubbish, yet promote some other Karate style of the same era, is really making a distinction without a difference. Sure, Kata differs greatly between styles, but how in the world are Kata nuances related to Self Defence? You either accept these older Karate styles or you don't. At their core, it's all Okinawan/Japanese Karate. Period!

That wasn't really the point of the OP. The point of the OP was attempting to create a laughable argument that sparring and fighting isn't conducive to self defense, yet doing what amounts to dancing in patterns will make you a true karate warrior.

 

[RTKDCMB]

yet doing what amounts to dancing in patterns

And who dances in patterns exactly?

 

[Hanzou]

And who dances in patterns exactly?

^^ Dancing in patterns.

It looks pretty, but its not so great for self defense.

 

[K-man]

No one needs me anymore. Good night gents.

 

[Tez3]

And who dances in patterns exactly?

Exactly, but this thread has succumbed to trolls, explaining anything now to people who don't want to listen, who won't keep an open mind is pointless. As Mark Twain said, one should never argue with idiots ( or 'know alls') because they will beat you down with their experience every time.

 

[Hanzou]

Sorry, but anyone who says that form training is the path towards competency in self defense is simply blowing smoke up someone's butt. If that someone goes on to say that form training is a better tool for self defense training than actually fighting/sparring, that person isn't worth training with.

Get your money back and learn martial arts somewhere else.

 

[RTKDCMB]

^^ Dancing in patterns.

It looks pretty, but its not so great for self defense.

So where is the dancing?

 

[RTKDCMB]

Sorry, but anyone who says that form training is the path towards competency in self defense is simply blowing smoke up someone's butt.

Or someone who does not know the first thing about form training and has made a hasty generalization based on limited experience and a lack of understanding.

If that someone goes on to say that form training is a better tool for self defense training than actually fighting/sparring, that person isn't worth training with.Get your money back and learn martial arts somewhere else.

You sound as though you think forms training is used in self defense training INSTEAD of fighting/sparring. It is not.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Sorry, but anyone who says that form training is the path towards competency in self defense is simply blowing smoke up someone's butt. If that someone goes on to say that form training is a better tool for self defense training than actually fighting/sparring, that person isn't worth training with.

Get your money back and learn martial arts somewhere else.

I don't recall anybody ever saying such a thing. It has been said that forms are ONE path towards competency. That you don't understand that path does not invalidate it.

 

[drop bear]

You sound as though you think forms training is used in self defense training INSTEAD of fighting/sparring. It is not.

That is the impression I got. I know kyokashin guys who do forms but will also legitimately bang your head off as well.

I can test what they do in alive training. And suggest that at least their method has merit.

But I really assumed we have an element of too deadly to spar or it is not a viable testing method.

 

[Laplace_demon]

That is the impression I got. I know kyokashin guys who do forms but will also legitimately bang your head off as well.

I can test what they do in alive training. And suggest that at least their method has merit.

But I really assumed we have an element of too deadly to spar or it is not a viable testing method.

Kyokushin freestyle Kumite is crippled by not allowing punches to the face. Japanese Karate Association torneys are fought bare fisted and stop after the first blow, attempting to reflect one punch one kill principle, instead of continous sparring, which wouldnt happen IRL.

 

[Gnarlie]

Kyokushin freestyle Kumite is crippled by not allowing punches to the face. Japanese Karate Association torneys are fought bare fisted and stop after the first blow, attempting to reflect one punch one kill principle, instead of continous sparring, which wouldnt happen IRL.

That's an ambiguous sentence structure, are you saying one hit or continuous wouldn't happen in real life?

 

[drop bear]

Kyokushin freestyle Kumite is crippled by not allowing punches to the face. Japanese Karate Association torneys are fought bare fisted and stop after the first blow, attempting to reflect one punch one kill principle, instead of continous sparring, which wouldnt happen IRL.

They face punch and continuously spar when they spar us.

 

[Drose427]

They face punch and continuously spar when they spar us.

Any style who can chest punch can face punch, and I've never heard of a school whose regular sparring isn't continuous.

The only real issue that could arise is the "they can't take Punches to the face!" Argument. But frankly, if you can take a kick to the head you're gonna be able to take punches too

 

[drop bear]

This was something that was mentioned to me. If you want to test under a ruleset that you feel is more believable. Then go do that.

If you think bare knuckle hard surface to the death is better preparation. Train in that manner but it still has to be contested.

Because that is how you know if an idea works.

Don't just abandon live training for conjecture.