Shotokan for self defence.

[drop bear]

The 'dogma' is coming from only one side, that of the kata doesn't work and MMA does.

And here specifically no.

It is not my argument that kata does not work. It is that kata is not evidence in itself.

 

[Tez3]

Inversely then how does watching a youtube video not show something works? The idea is at least it works somewhere. Otherwise it could be any form of reference news articles,wiki whatever.

If you pick an I am right and you are wrong stance you cant also take the middle ground.

What I said was that what I do works for me, I don't care whether it works for you, that it works for me is enough.
Posting up random videos does not prove anything, there are loads of videos that show 'fails' including loads of very poor and inept MMA fights, to watch them only would lead you to conclude that MMA was rubbish. If you aren't going to be fair in picking videos, only choosing bad ones it really doesn't prove anything. That's the point of the videos that are put up here, they are deliberately picked to show that something doesn't work all the while cherry picking ones that show BJJ does work, ignoring all the ones that are fails of course.

 

[Tez3]

And here specifically no.

It is not my argument that kata does not work. It is that kata is not evidence in itself.

Ones needs bunkai for kata so you haven't understood the concept.

 

[drop bear]

Ones needs bunkai for kata so you haven't understood the concept.

can we really not keep falling back on that.

Constantly claiming i don't understand the true mysteries of martial arts makes it sound like a cult.

 

[drop bear]

What I said was that what I do works for me, I don't care whether it works for you, that it works for me is enough.
Posting up random videos does not prove anything, there are loads of videos that show 'fails' including loads of very poor and inept MMA fights, to watch them only would lead you to conclude that MMA was rubbish. If you aren't going to be fair in picking videos, only choosing bad ones it really doesn't prove anything. That's the point of the videos that are put up here, they are deliberately picked to show that something doesn't work all the while cherry picking ones that show BJJ does work, ignoring all the ones that are fails of course.

If there was a better way of demonstrating a point i would use it.

My issue is i am wading through all these misconceptions that i can't see are based on anything other than people saying it enough times untill it sounds true.

 

[Tez3]

can we really not keep falling back on that.

Constantly claiming i don't understand the true mysteries of martial arts makes it sound like a cult.

Hardly, it's more like saying you need eggs to make an omelette.

why are you wading through anything? Why do you care what others do?

 

[Hanzou]

Ones needs bunkai for kata so you haven't understood the concept.

Yeah, but you don't need kata and/or kata bunkai to be an effective martial artist right? So people who do kata and bunkai are doing more training to reach the same results as those who don't.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah, but you don't need kata and/or kata bunkai to be an effective martial artist right? So people who do kata and bunkai are doing more training to reach the same results as those who don't.

And this worries you why?

Each to their own, if that's what you think. Why are you spending so much time trying to debunk what we do, why does it matter to you?

Over the years here we've had all sorts of training posts, some people like to hit trees, some like to break pieces of wood, others toughen up their shins by hitting with rolling pins and there's more but the thing is it doesn't impact on anyone else what they do.

Basically I have to think you are trolling, looking to irritate karateka over the way they train. Kata and bunkai aren't compulsory, many don't do either, many do both but what business is it of yours? Do we constantly rubbish the way you train? Do we say well that's obviously not going to work? Do we make snarky comments about your training being like a cult like your offsider?

 

[tshadowchaser]

and now back to the subject of Shotokan Karate and why it works or dose not work , please.

It would seem that the art has been around for some years now and it must have some good points and it must have proved itself useful for more that exercise over the years else why would it still be around.
Just because one dose not find you tube videos of it being used in the street dose not mean practitioners have never used their knowledge to defend themselves successfully
Just because one person sees no benefit in Kata or has not learned what a kata is about dose not mean there is no use for kata
To me this whole thread is about one or two people trying to STYLE bash yet make it seem like they are not doing that to stay within the rules of the forum.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Constantly claiming i don't understand the true mysteries of martial arts makes it sound like a cult.

Or that you're just not listening.

 

[drop bear]

Hardly, it's more like saying you need eggs to make an omelette.

why are you wading through anything? Why do you care what others do?

why does anybody?

yet we all seem to.

 

[Tez3]

One thing to look at with Shotokan I think is about whether it's more beneficial for 'larger' people than smaller. I say this because our chief instructor's first karate style was Shotokan, he's well over six foot and well built, he says that he finds Shotokan easier than other styles. He certainly rates it for self defence. He's also trained in quite a few styles as being in the Forces means you move around a lot and train whatever is available where you are posted. He also says Wado is easier for smaller people with it's shorter stances. Any thoughts on this?

 

[drop bear]

Or that you're just not listening.

I thought it was because i was not agreeing.

 

[Tez3]

No, we don't all wade through stuff, someone here says they do something I don't disbelieve them and troll through videos to prove he/she doesn't. I'm interested in all martial arts but what I know about ALL martial arts isn't very much, so I read and learn.[/

 

[drop bear]

One thing to look at with Shotokan I think is about whether it's more beneficial for 'larger' people than smaller. I say this because our chief instructor's first karate style was Shotokan, he's well over six foot and well built, he says that he finds Shotokan easier than other styles. He certainly rates it for self defence. He's also trained in quite a few styles as being in the Forces means you move around a lot and train whatever is available where you are posted. He also says Wado is easier for smaller people with it's shorter stances. Any thoughts on this?

It would make sense if Shotokan outfight more.

 

[Tez3]

I thought it was because i was not agreeing.

It doesn't matter whether you agree or not, it's just you aren't being very agreeable. Far from it, with the cults crack it seems you are trying to insult.

 

[Tez3]

It would make sense if Shotokan outfight more.

What does that mean? "outfight"?

 

[drop bear]

No, we don't all wade through stuff, someone here says they do something I don't disbelieve them and troll through videos to prove he/she doesn't. I'm interested in all martial arts but what I know about ALL martial arts isn't very much, so I read and learn.[/

so you are not proving that you are right at this very moment?

 

[drop bear]

It doesn't matter whether you agree or not, it's just you aren't being very agreeable. Far from it, with the cults crack it seems you are trying to insult.

you probably just don't understand my point.

 

[drop bear]

What does that mean? "outfight"?

To fight using range and distance.