All "sport" have weakness. A
- boxer doesn't know how to block a kick.
- CMA guy doesn't know how to play the ground game.
- BJJ guy doesn't know how to hit and run.
- ...
"Only" is the problem.
Self Defense usage of the Grappling Arts
- Thread starter stonewall1350
- Start date
- boxer doesn't know how to block a kick.
- CMA guy doesn't know how to play the ground game.
- BJJ guy doesn't know how to hit and run.
- ...
"Only" is the problem.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
All martial arts styles have a weakness. All martial artists have a weakness. Not just sport. There's a counter to every technique, and a counter to every counter.
I'll even go so far as to say the fewer full weaknesses a style has (covering more bases) the weaker it is likely to be in a larger area. So, NGA has strikes and grappling. Assuming similar training levels (and effectiveness of technique), someone who only studies strikes (in our case, closest would be Shotokan Karatedo) or grappling (Judo is a good comparison) will be better than us in their area. We aren't as "only " as those guys are, so we cover more bases (in general), but that means we spread ourselves thinner.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
All sports, except MMA, has weaknesses when it comes to hand to hand combat, IMO.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Yes but maybe not yes.
Really? Am I reading that right? MMA has no weaknesses?
Point. MMA = Mixed Martial Arts, meaning it is a mix of martial arts. MMA is not a "thing" in and of itself.
I'll mix Tai Chi and... random choice here still in genre... maybe Wing Chun. I've just created a flavor of MMA, and it's got weaknesses, and those weaknesses are the underlying arts. I'll steal Wang's assertion that CMA doesn't do well on the ground. OK, there you go, a MMA has a wekness. Whiz-bang.
Literally everything, everybody and every single style has a weakness or some weaknesses. To assert otherwise is to show lack of understanding. To learn and gain in knowledge is to gain in understanding of the weaknesses in yourself, and train to cover them up to the extent possible.
For example, based on what I know (Sorry about this man) My man Gerry has admitted to having bad knees. It isn't going to happen, but if I was out and I got the impression that he had done something foul and malevolent to my hot ladyship and we had to go, I'd attempt to be up and on him and working against those knees. I feel confident that said weakness has been the point of thought and training on his part, so he's probably got quite a few workarounds in his personal system. Weakness, attempted to be trained over/around.
For DropBear, I'd engage him at a distance, perhaps with a game of chess. For Steve, it'd be a sacrifice throw to go to the ground, then roll around tickling him into submission. For Wang, it'd be the "If do right, no can defense" crane kick from Karate Kid, because he's sure to start laughing so hard that I could actually make it work. Just like on TV.
For some guys who do MMA, I try to find out what their strength is... or what they Think their strength is, then take it away and wait to see what comes next. Usually, it ain't much, since they really did not spend enough time finding out what it is that they are trying to do. They've got a couple punch combos, a couple low kicks, a leg pic or shoot, and a couple go to moves ont he ground and a decent mount for ground and pound... and that is their complete catalog. Almost everyone on this board can deal with that guy, if they can deal witht he conditioning problem.
Everyone, everything, every style has a weakness. Repeated for emphasis. To think otherwise is delusional.
Yes. Really good martial artists work against each other in a game akin to rapid 3-dimehnsional chess, and whoever doesn't know the next move in the game usually ends up disadvantaged and losing.
What areas of MMA training typically cover multiple opponents?
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Correct.
I like how you condensed all of MMA into just "a couple of punch combos, couple of kicks, and couple of ground moves..." so that's like 6 moves required to make a living as a UFC fighter... oh wait, plus some conditioning work.
Well if this is true, then you or whoever you're talking about, can make millions for just 1 fight vs. Conor McGregor.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
That's not training, that's an actual contest. It does not tell me what they have done, with in training specifically to deal with multiple opponents.
So, what do you do, in training, in terms of concepts and principals, that is specifically geared towards multiple opponents.
And that is before we address the fact that the term hand to hand combat encompasses the use of close range and improvised weaponry.
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You entirely missed the "for some guys" in his statement. I'm guessing on purpose, but correct me if I'm wrong on that.Correct.
I like how you condensed all of MMA into just "a couple of punch combos, couple of kicks, and couple of ground moves..." so that's like 6 moves required to make a living as a UFC fighter... oh wait, plus some conditioning work.
Well if this is true, then you or whoever you're talking about, can make millions for just 1 fight vs. Conor McGregor.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
It's actually a much more realistic application of fighting multiple opponents than what you train if you can't see its results being presented here in this video.
Just from my experience with no training vs. multiple opponents (although I have fought in gang rumbles before in the street when I was young).....and my first time sparring at this one, very good Krav Maga gym.....in a 1 vs 2 and then 1 vs 3 group....it took me like 10 seconds to figure out that I should line them up with my footwork and keep the weakest one in front to block the stronger(s). I was lighting them up 1v2. 1v3, I got hit a lot more. It was about 50% power, but I had to drop one guy because he went hard. Just using Boxing and footwork with a few teeps here and there. These were Level 2-5 in that school I think. I was seeing a lot of fear in their eyes, except that one that I dropped...he was a savage. The main instructor is also a legit Muay Thai fighter.
So you're the only one who knows how to pick up a chair, bottle, lamp, pool stick, etc. to stab or smash into someone's head? Also, would my 9mm with 20 rounds of hollow points, that I carry around like it's an extra limb, be considered an improvised weapon?
Nothing "hand to hand" about firearms, and you know it.
Whether I am or aren't is not relevant to the point I am making, You stated that MMA had no weaknesses when it came to hand to hand combat. As the term hand to hand combat encompasses close range weapons such as knives, sticks, batons and improvised weapons, then in order for MMA to have no weaknesses as you claim, it must have training specific to this area of hand to hand combat. My question is simply, what are they?
No. Firearms are considered long range weapons. Close range weapons are things like knives, batons, sticks etc.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Oh I forgot that I was under oath again. Change that to, MMA has no weaknesses when it comes to combat using one's natural limbs and body part against others using only their limbs and body parts. Although if someone's arm broke clean off, it's perfectly legal to use that as a melee weapon.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
The gun's in my hand.
I was merely seeking further information based on the statement you made, as I can't really quz on statements you haven't made.
If you used the wrong term fine, just say so. It's not a problem
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Not the same thing, and you know it.
ST1Doppelganger
Brown Belt
Grappling definitely has strong points for self defense purpose.
I personally love grappling arts but would never use my grappling knowledge to purposely roll around on the street with an assailant.
Instead of rolling I would use my grappling skills to maintain standing position or use it in order to get back up to my feet or to a one knee position (OKP) asap.
There's multiple holds and submissions that you can safely apply from knee on belly, knee on chest, knee on a face down opponent or from the OKP that would allow you to control an opponent with out resorting to just pummeling them. Those positions would allow you to break or KO someone and easily engage another assailant if it turned in to a multiple opponent scenario.
Those options can be very beneficial when it comes down to the legal system.
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I personally love grappling arts but would never use my grappling knowledge to purposely roll around on the street with an assailant.
Instead of rolling I would use my grappling skills to maintain standing position or use it in order to get back up to my feet or to a one knee position (OKP) asap.
There's multiple holds and submissions that you can safely apply from knee on belly, knee on chest, knee on a face down opponent or from the OKP that would allow you to control an opponent with out resorting to just pummeling them. Those positions would allow you to break or KO someone and easily engage another assailant if it turned in to a multiple opponent scenario.
Those options can be very beneficial when it comes down to the legal system.
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By my definition, grappling isn't just the ground-based work. All of Judo, for instance, falls under grappling. Throws and hard takedowns are my preferred techniques for defensive use.
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